Ville Valo
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I have seen alice cooper live, and he is an entertainer the same way kiss are, but him are in a different category, how boring life, and indeed music would be if everyone had to follow some dictators rules on what is good and what is not. Marilyn manson is extremely entertaining to watch, but i wouldn' want to spend much time listening to his music, i really don' think he is original in any way at all, Have you seen Him live for yourself? until you have ,perhaps you should reserve judgement, on how entertaining Ville is. oh, by the way you forgot in your list of entertainers to mention David Bowie, now he really is an original, and I would compare Ville with him.
>>By scarletnikki (Monday, 10 Oct 2005 23:45)
Ville has got to be doing his thing for another 30 years before he can be on par with Bowie.
There are others I could have mentioned, but I felt the list was sufficient to prove my point:
Ville's act really isn't all that innovative.
But it is psychotic.
Bowie's act is much more versitile (something that has allowed his music to remain sucessful all this time).
H.I.M. takes the same dark tac in practically every song-
If he's not moaning about graves, guilt, and the flames of dispair, he's begging his love not to kill herself.
Some obvioulsly find that deeply entertaining, which is emotionally misaligned.
Any of the other entertainers I mentioned earlier (including Bowie) may have a handful of songs that explore the darker side of the human psychie.
Ville not only seems to live there, but he's put up a H.I.M. store and is charging fans rent... and they love him for it... because he's so pretty.
How tragic is that?
>>By o0Helix0o (Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 01:06)
well, I'm sure Ville will be around in 30 years, and every album HIM have done so far has been different and has evolved. If you knew some of Bowies earlier work you would agree that it is indeed psychotic and that perhaps makes some of the more interesting acts around are too. There are plenty of contrived cliches in the music arena, I don't happen to think HIM are one of them. of course Ville has his influences which come across loud and clear, such as sabbath.sisters of mercy, the mission and fields of nephilim and his take on all of that ,is a wonderful synergy. All music acts "put up a store and charge rent" Bowie has, to the degree where to view his official website costs. People don't love Ville" because he is so pretty" that's just jealousy talking. it wouldn't actually matter what he looked like. obviously not everyone is going to " get" HIM they are not contrived pop, but do represent certain disharmonies in life, and there are a lot of people who can relate to that, that is not emotionally misaligned. but the realisation that life and love aren' t always a bowl of candy.Thank god for HIM, if it wasn't for them all music would be bland and lacking in meaning. What's tragic about that?
>>By scarletnikki (Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 12:31)
"Thank god for HIM, if it wasn't for them all music would be bland and lacking in meaning"
I'm sure you didn't think that through before you said it...
"David Bowie, now he really is an original, and I would compare Ville with him"
Just no...
"Have you seen Him live for yourself?"
Yep, got the DVD that came with their greatest hits, which I bought to find out why people like them - Ville just stands there and sings, pretty much - the band sure as Hell don't do anything interesting... however, the audience were entirely reminiscent of a Backstreet Boys audience, which is fascinating
Never mind emotionally misaligned - the songs are all about the same miserable stuff! Really it's like emo only even more pretentious, and I don't see how the same bland rubbish can survive through 30 years, considering their progress so far - try listening to some real music like In Flames
>>By Sk8a H8a (Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 17:44)
uh yeah I thought it through!!! try again....thank god for him.....if it wasn't for them ........all OTHER music Is bland and lacking in meaning ,in comparison.....geddit? I have met both Bowie and Ville in person on more than one occasion, and in my opinion there are similarities on more than one level. A live dvd doesn't capyure the essence of a live gig and being there....................its a little thing called atmosphere. I find it intriguing that people on this message board will invest time and possibly money looking into a group's music who they really don't like................WHY? i really couldn't be bothered.
>>By scarletnikki (Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 20:59)
I think you missed my point scarletnikki.
I wasn't suggesting that charging the fans was somehow unique to this group.
The point I was making is, that while other groups with similar overtones only spend a fraction of their work exploring dark emotions, H.I.M.'s ONLY resource is exploiting the depression, loneliness, and alienation, that darken the soul and infuses it with psudo-occult inuendo in order to suggest what exactly-
That life typically sucks so why not embrace your misfortune and long for death? You tell me.
You mentioned that every album HIM has released has been different-
If that's true, than please explain how
"Razorblade Romance"
"Greatest Love Songs 666"
and the new "Dark Light"
differ from the presumed topics of Suicide and Sacrelidge...
Now, as far as liking the band (or Ville specifically) because he is "pretty"-
You and I both understand it shouldn't be about the IMAGE,
but HAVE YOU READ THROUGH THE PAGES OF THIS DISCUSSION???
It's not jealousy here, it's merely observation.
No one would want to admit the fan base of a favorite group is "shallow" or "trendy", but the comments here speak for themselves. It would seem that most H.I.M.sters lend so much weight to Ville's image that they all but ignore the venom of H.I.M.'s music or even worse, convince themselves that his ideals are actually worthwhile.
That, by definition, is emotionally misguided.
You can argue the point all you like, but you're doing so on over 60 pages of evidence to the contrary.
So why spend time looking into music even if I don't like it. Because it's there, and I love good music, and if a band gets to me the wrong way but are still popular an many people's opinion, I like to know if I'm missing something... some basic thread that draws fans attention that maybe I've overlooked. It's easy to explore the bands you like. The one's you don't help you define the nature of your preference.
As in visual art, some people are content with the notion "I don't know art, but I know what I like".
My experience as an artist is usually in contrast to that- I KNOW art, therefore I know I know what I like and I know what I don't.
Music is no different in that regard.
People who "don't know music, but they know what they like" are typically led by the "crowd mentality". You know what that makes them?
... sheep. ;o)
>>By o0Helix0o (Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 22:50)
I spent money to find out what the band was like coz I'd never heard them...
"if it wasn't for them ........all OTHER music Is bland and lacking in meaning ,in comparison" - if HIM didn't exist, a comparison would be impossible... but what I meant was: are you saying that all other music would be bland and uninteresting if not for HIM? That is exactly what you said, but I refuse to believe that all good music was inspired by HIM - to use your example, would David Bowie be bland and uninteresting if Ville Valo had never become a singer?
>>By Sk8a H8a (Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 23:15)
well I would assume that people who like him, can relate to what Ville writes about, of course there are going to be "sheep" who only like them because their friends do or some other trivial reason, particularly as they are now reaching more mainstream audiences, and i suppose there must be some who are only interested in the image. I can't speak fpr everyone and yes there are some shallow comments on this message board , some even made by me!! lighten up. The Music is, very different on each c.d. if you take more time to listen to them compare love metal with deep shadows brilliant highlights. W hether his ideals are worthwhile??? they are lyrics and like art represent a fragment ofimages they do not represent anyone's ideals. and as i have actually studied psychology I find it hilarious that anyone would suggest that liking what Ville does is emotionally misguided, what exactly is your definition of that? i would say, i do know music ,and i do know what i like ., i do not have to study the music I don't like to understand what I do like although i respect the fact that you take the time to do so and your observations are valid and interesting just coming from the opposide camp from my own. i have never been lead by any crowd and know very much what is my own taste. The funny thing, it seems about him fans on flork is that (some of them) like to think they are the only fan in the world and they have the monopoly , and noone else should express their interest, when i first came on here I was attacked for being to old! how sad and shallow is that. sk8a..... there is no point going over the same ground again, i think him are innovative and yes,their influences come over loud and clear, and just from my humble point of view ,currently there is no other music than can hold a candle to him.. and if there had been no bowie maybe there would have been no Ville.
>>By scarletnikki (Wednesday, 12 Oct 2005 19:25)
You're really not paying any attention to what I'm saying, are you??
>>By Sk8a H8a (Wednesday, 12 Oct 2005 22:50)
do you wish to explain that?
>>By scarletnikki (Wednesday, 12 Oct 2005 22:55)
"sk8a..... there is no point going over the same ground again, i think him are innovative and yes,their influences come over loud and clear, and just from my humble point of view ,currently there is no other music than can hold a candle to him.. and if there had been no bowie maybe there would have been no Ville."
Earlier on you said that HIM was the only good music in the world and I was objecting to that... you just brought in the reference to Bowie influencing Ville (I'm sure he did) for no reason
>>By Sk8a H8a (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 17:02)
it wasnt for no reason, if you had taken notice of the rest of the discussion that didn't involve you.
>>By scarletnikki (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 19:59)
and why do you have to keep rewriting my words????!!!!!
>>By scarletnikki (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 21:41)
I did take notice, unlike you... and it's called quoting - answer me honestly: do you really believe HIM are the only good band in the world?
>>By Sk8a H8a (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 23:38)
H.I.M have been doing this style of music for quite some time now, to compare them to a new fad of music such as emo, is in my opinion dumb, they may sing about the 'same miserable stuff', but so does many doom metal bands such as My Dying Bride, doom metal has a genre called 'funeral doom' and i dont see you people bitching on their page about how 'emo' they are, you cant put a band into a genre of music because of how they are lyricaly themed. Sure there are idiots out there that just like the band because their friends do, or they just try and look cool by drawing a heartagram on their hands or something stupid like that, but there are some real fans out there that really love the band and i think it would take more than an internet arguement to put them off, so its basicaly just a waste of time. And Sk8a H8a, no offense, but saying 'try listening to some real music like In Flames' on a H.I.M page is completely uncalled for, thats like going on a pop artists page and saying 'you people should listen to black metal', you just cant compare the two, and I definitely would not consider new In flames real music, sounds more like a roadrunner band trying to sound like Korn, but thats just my opinion.
>>By cruel_portrait (Sunday, 16 Oct 2005 02:27)
"With lust you're kicking mankind to death" - My Dying Bride lyrics, really emo, yeah? Nonsense - besides, doom metal bands actually sound completely different to emo, lyrics aside, whereas HIM have emo-sounding guitar riffs
"there are some real fans out there that really love the band and i think it would take more than an internet arguement to put them off" - so what makes you think I'm trying to persuade those? When I say "try listening to some real music like In Flames" I'm aiming it at people who might be influenced by my words, rather than close-minded "real fans" who won't bother checking out In Flames because they think HIM is the only worthwhile band in the world "Thank god for HIM, if it wasn't for them all music would be bland and lacking in meaning"
Anyway, I'll admit that In Flames are not what they used to be, but they still no how to do guitar harmonies better than Korn ever will
>>By Sk8a H8a (Sunday, 16 Oct 2005 05:31)
I didnt say My Dying Bride lyrics were emo at all, I just ment that you could take H.I.M lyrics and give them to My Dying Bride and they could use them and knowone would call it emo or any of that crap, and im sure alot of H-I-M fans wouldnt need to check In Flames out, as all the H.I.M worshiping T.V stations over here play In Flames all the time, and all magazines with Ville Valo on the front usually have stuff about In Flames in it, like live reviews and interviews and stuff. And give me an example of an emo sounding guitar riff HIM use? because from what I know they have been useing this style since 1997, and im pretty sure emo didnt even excist back then. And expect new In Flames to sound even worse, they signed to ferret music, aka the home of emo bands such as funeral for a friend.
>>By cruel_portrait (Sunday, 16 Oct 2005 13:52)
exactly cruel- portrait, they are different types of music and sk8a is very condescending towards H.I.M, fans. this does not mean we can't appreciate a lot of other music (which I do) . i find it interesting that you expend so much energy trying to trash the band which is just not going to work on this page.
>>By scarletnikki (Wednesday, 19 Oct 2005 10:49)
Well, I got at least one person to listen to In Flames so yay
>>By Sk8a H8a (Wednesday, 19 Oct 2005 18:39)
in flames were awsome and now they are... good. anyhow, valo's discussion isn't exactly a place to talk about them.
i wonder how would people react if i got into nile discussion and asked them to listen to HIM... i don't really wanna try hehe
>>By iva212 (Wednesday, 19 Oct 2005 19:53)
yeah i'm getting bored with this whole argument now ,its just going around in circles, 0ohelixo0 had some intelligent and insightful points to make(even if I don't agree) then things went downhill.
>>By scarletnikki (Friday, 21 Oct 2005 17:10)
Yeah, I'm sorry for beign so inflammatory - I just wish there was a discussion that wasn't totally dominated by obsessive Valo fans who leave no room open for serious debate
>>By Sk8a H8a (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 17:47)
the problem isn't in ibsessive valo fans, the best argument they have is "valo looks gothic, and i am goth, so therefor HIM rock". problem is in trying to convince people that they shouldn't like certain band just because they are comercial. obsesive valo fans probably like the band just cause of image, but tho i think valo is really good looking, it's not the reason that i listen to HIM. i in fact, like their music.
i think lauri from rasmus is really hot and stuff, but that doesn't stop me from hating the band cause their nmusic is ... awful.
so it's kinda insulting when someone claims that all girls listen to HIM only cause of singer.
there are 1000 bands that are better than HIM, and 1000 bands that are worse. tastes are just different.
>>By iva212 (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 17:52)
i think most of the debate has been worthwhile and interesting. to understand one point of view ,you have to be prepared to listen to the other i, obviously like what HIM are doing , but I can also see why some of the points have been made. wouldn't it be really boring if everyone went along and said the same things. obviosly the whole goth movement has come around again which is partly why HIM are doing so well, and its very different from when it was around the first time, there were less clones then.
>>By scarletnikki (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 21:51)
It's just that a lot of HIM fans who claim to love the music coz it's so different also so "Ville's so hot" all the time and I'm fed up of hearing about how certain celebrities are "hot", especially when they're telling me at the same time that they really don't care about his looks... "it's kinda insulting when someone claims that all girls listen to HIM only cause of singer" - so why are we discussing this on the Ville Valo page rather than the HIM discussion??
>>By Sk8a H8a (Tuesday, 25 Oct 2005 01:44)
" I just wish there was a discussion that wasn't totally dominated by obsessive Valo fans who leave no room open for serious debate
>>By Sk8a H8a (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 17:47)"
the discusion started here, and i find it in most recent discusions, so it's easier to comment here than go leave another message on HIM board. and "it's kinda insulting when someone claims that all girls listen to HIM only cause of singer" - valo is HIM's singer, and some girls listen to band only cause of him and cause they think they'll meet him or something. thats what obsessive fans are. not all HIM fans are like that tho.
>>By iva212 (Tuesday, 25 Oct 2005 08:19)
it is the whole sound of him, not just Ville' vocals, which at times have been weak. his vocal's are better now. again how Ville looks is actually irrelavent sometimes I think he looks good other times he does not. As i am a make up artist I know that image is transient. Ville is not the best looking in the world but how he looks does go with the music, and I personally like his look which is more unusual . Some people are going to like him for the music, some for the look as in most bands.
>>By scarletnikki (Tuesday, 25 Oct 2005 11:37)
Well, I find it a shame that pics of the band are virtually non-existant, whereas Ville seems to appear everywhere - how come the others are so comparitively reclusive and how do they deal with such success??
>>By Sk8a H8a (Tuesday, 25 Oct 2005 16:14)
I agree with you there sk8a, from what I have read and heard ville and the band say, the others aren't so happy giving interviews as apparently there english isn't so good ,the band have been very involved with the making of dark light, hey, even Gas(the drummer) likes this cd(he is a slayer fan) but no matter what I am very impressed with the band as musicians and i don't think Ville would be the same without them, and he would agree. Ville's image is being very heavily promoted 'cos the new record company want success, so there are currently a lot of pictures doing the rounds with no shirt, make-up and as you say no band!!!!!
>>By scarletnikki (Wednesday, 26 Oct 2005 14:40)
To be fair I've heard that Ville likes to hang out in high profile places without his band (coz they prefer not be seen about) and this gets him noticed more... I don't have a problem with that - it's just that nobody seems to know anything at all about the rest of the band
>>By Sk8a H8a (Wednesday, 26 Oct 2005 17:35)
The discussion board is currently closed.
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