Rage Against The Machine
Yes, that's possibly the most annoying thing about RATM. Especially "All of which are American dreams" - how many times is that repeated? Rage are really annoying.
Campking: so what if I like Avril Lavigne? I don't claim that her music has any integrity or she's a good musician. I just enjoy listening. It may not be your type of music, but that doesn't mean any fan of Avril has entirely incorrect opinions. That's just pure prejudice. Much like you hate Avril, I hate Rage Against the Machine. However, I'm prepared to accept that Rage fans might have good taste in other bands...
Time and time again people have referred to the lyrics as being important things that need "to be said". Sure, they've been said, but to what avail? What have Rage achieved through their methods? The people who take Rage's point of view seriously haven't been swayed because they were already disenchanted with the government anyway and everyone who supported Bush or whoever before the heard Rage, still does. Nobody has listened to RATM and suddenly thought "Wow! This band, with its political opinions which are drastically different to mine, really is pure genius! From now on I'm going to be a revolutionary and fight for the rights of Hispanics!" They just didn't achieve that kind of change in political opinion - they've just converted protesters to rockers, trading in their picket signs for RATM CDs, much to the annoyance of people like myself, who can't stand their music.
Tom Morello is, notwithstanding, a talented guitarist. Maybe if he were in a different band (and I don't mean Audioslave - I mean something with another guitarist to back him up), I'd enjoy his music. I just don't appreciate what he does with RATM-style backing. Or Audioslave... it's still the same musicians and I still don't like the vocals.
I think Zack's lyrics are really lame, especially as they're often repeated. If he was repeating a weighty statement, it might make more of an effect, but right through "Killing in the Name of", he says the same rubbish over and over. I think that might be the second most annoying song I have ever heard, although there are others by Rage which come close. "you kinda need *EVIDENCE* to back up your claims" - is that acceptable evidence about the lyrics? And is that entire song about the Ku Klux Klan manipulating the police??
He is quite simply not a good vocalist. If he were rapping to a hip-hop backing track, it might sound alright, but rock (or as you call it, "rap metal" - I hold that metal is a genre of rock - comes out of the ground, doesn't it?) really doesn't suit him. I don't think he's a good singer.
I don't have a major problem with the bassist or the drummer... yet. But people seem to make a big fuss about Morello and de la Rocha, so I deemed it appropriate to tell you all what I dislike about them.
>>By Sk8a H8a (Monday, 1 Nov 2004 21:35)
Okay, you hate them. Fine. I really don't care. And quite frankly I don't think anyone else who likes Rage cares either. You have your own opinions, that's true, just like everyone else. But where is the fun in going on to this, claiming that the lyrics mean nothing and that Morrello's not talented and that you hate them?? It's just pointless. You've explained *several* times that you hate them, why bother repeating yourself
~~I think Zack's lyrics are really lame, especially as they're often repeated. ~~
to people who are really not caring??
You may not find Zach's lyrics as good as say... Roger Waters - but come on, you cannot just say the are "lame", especially as you listen to Avril Lavigne - what does she sing about again?? Oh yes... why do things have to be so complicated - and of course those in South America and Africa don't have complicated lives and are just happy. Life in the bubble's great - go to sleep and let it wash all over you.
Killing in the Name Of. Yes he does repeat himself, but is what he says not valid?? Ms Lavigne, I'm quite sure, uses this technique quite a lot to overcome the difficulties of remembering half decent lyrics. All of which are American dreams, I admit does go on a little bit too long, but that doesn't comletely change the song for me - it's what he says before hand, not how many times he says it. Maybe repeating what he says might get the idea into people's heads that there are people out there suffering because of the corruption in this world.
>>By Tchock (Monday, 1 Nov 2004 22:16)
(or as you call it, "rap metal" - I hold that metal is a genre of rock - comes out of the ground, doesn't it?)
Then why don't we just call it folk music or blues? Since rock is strongly rooted in both.
When you want to use terms, don't just use them at your own avail. Use them as tey are, or don't use them.
If you like avril, that's your choice (I avoid the word taste very strictly in this case), oke, you're right on that one. But since I don't know much more about you than this and the fact that you make some quite absurd statements from time to time, it is what I have to judge you on. As you know I don't believe that she has anything to do with being a great musician or artist, but she is only a commercial product which is sold to us by the big and already unacceptebly rich music bussiness, you can understand that I don't deem people who fall for this media trick very high. Avril is music for the dead fish, and even though I believe that you are quite an intelligent boy, your love for her keeps surprising me and thus makes me put you in this category of those brainwashed by the media.
This indeed makes every comment that I place in reaction on what you write rather biased and subjective, but I am not ashamed for that.
Believe me, I try to take you serious. but if there is a comparison between a serious hard struggling band and a richkidmarionet with a good manager, I can do two things: react in shock for the ignorance or ridicule the whole idea......
>>By Campking (Monday, 1 Nov 2004 23:32)
I hold that metal is a genre of rock - comes out of the ground, doesn't it?
That must have been a joke Campking. Why do you take it so seriously.....?
>>By Joris Spikkelaar (Tuesday, 2 Nov 2004 00:17)
Yeah, I was kinda joking... but the point behind that was that metal has its influences in rock - calling it folk or blues is simply taking it back too far. But okaeey, I'll stick to using strict terms to avoid conflict.
I apologise for Avril, but I hold that it's important to like one thing for absolutely no sane reason whatsoever, simply to stop life getting too boring. I can't stand making serious posts on every single one of these boards - Avril is my light relief. Using my carefree opinion expressed on Avril as basis for judgement is fair enough. But comparing her lyrics to Rage Against the Machine's is just ridiculous. I may not like RATM but I don't pretend that they were not a serious band with serious lyrics. I don't agree with them or think they're particularly clever, but that's not the only reason I dislike them. I don't like Avril for her lyrics - I like her for random cuteness. Rage don't have random cuteness - they have sucky (yes, sucky) lyrics, overcooked guitar lines, stale political views, vocals that made Zack de la Rocha sound like a raving lunatic (seriously - I think that's a fair comparison) and music that's arranged about as professionally as Korn.
>>By Sk8a H8a (Tuesday, 2 Nov 2004 10:07)
But thats just it, their lyrics weren't 'sucky'. Regardless of whether or not you agreed with their political standings, Zack is a masterful lyricist. He can flow and rhyme just as competently as many of todays hip-hop greats, he is creative, unique and his use of metaphors is often outstanding.
I can see why Morello's occasionally off the wall playing may not appeal to some, but Zack is a virtually flawless artist. Sure, he could use a little variation with his subject matter every so often, but to call him a raving lunatic is ridiculous. It's very rare you hear a vocalist using anger and aggression with such precision.
>>By Stinkfist (Tuesday, 2 Nov 2004 14:53)
and Korn have nothing to do with this discussion, so please refrain from bringing them down to your level as well.
>>By Stinkfist (Tuesday, 2 Nov 2004 14:54)
It's me again - the guy who doesn't actually know much about this band but loves arguing. :)
Sk8ta - do you think little miss Lavigne would have so much 'random cuteness' if someone took off her make-up for her? I don't, I think she would be the shallow and pointless popstar that she is anyway, and she'd look pretty ugly (there you go Tchock) to boot.
But back to Rage. They didn't actually cause a revolution did they? There are still corrupt politicians, racist cops and morons ruling countries all over the place. The problem was, as far as I can see, not that theyw ere a bad band, but that they put politics before music. When they realised they hadn't made the world a better place they split up - at least that's what I heard, I dunno if there was another reason.
All the best bands have done at least one stupid song about nothing much at all. A song that ISN'T a statement; I admire RATM's energy, I agree with the points they made and their music sounds good, but I think their priorities were wrong.
>>By Flagg (Tuesday, 2 Nov 2004 21:53)
Just want to let you guys know two things......
1) Living Colour is great!
2) Found out today that ratm actually only formed after seeing a UDS concert in New York. After that they decided they wanted to make music just like the urban dance squad. So I wasn't so far of with my link to UDS......
>>By Campking (Tuesday, 9 Nov 2004 00:17)
to the guy to the 2 posts above mine...
RATM didnt split up because they realized they hadn't done anything good. I dont remember who it was, but Zach and one of the other band mates had been arguing a whole lot. Their practices could hardly take place because Zach and whoever else it was just couldnt work together. I think the reason for the argument was that Zach was taking the band somewhere that the other members didnt want to go, or at least that other member.
ALso Zach wanted to do some of his own solo work, as he's doin now.
>>By Metro2Lucid (Tuesday, 9 Nov 2004 16:36)
Last I heard, Zack's solo album is being produced Dan 'The Automator' Nakamura (for those who don't know him), the guy who produced Dr Octagon, Deltron 3030, Head Automatica and more. I don't know whether Nakamura's style will fit Zack's, but fingers crossed huh.
Did anyone hear the song Zack did with DJ Shadow called 'March Of Death'? I was a little disappointed when I heard Shadow wouldn't be producing the rest of Zack's material, that song was excellent. Very reminiscent of the old Public Enemy stuff.
>>By Stinkfist (Tuesday, 9 Nov 2004 17:10)
For those of you who own a Zoom 606 Effects pedal, shove it on E6 and play Know Your Enemy!!
Urgh!! You know the adverts at the side of the page?? Well currently I am seeing 5 adverts for Avril Lavigne- ON THE BLOODY RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE SITE- HOW DARE THEY!! Please tell me I'm dreaming....
>>By Tchock (Sunday, 27 Feb 2005 14:42)
I'm listening to The Battle of LA properly for the first time right now - it's good, not as good as the first album. One or two songs sound a little RHCP-ish. Think that over Tchock.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 27 Feb 2005 18:40)
Never got into Rage when they were together...hear them more on the radio now....but I have to say that I love the band but can't stand Zack....Chris Cornell and the boys from Rage fit together like a glove and I can't wait to see what they have up their sleeves for us next
>>By dmaria (Sunday, 20 Mar 2005 07:07)
I'm a full-fledged fan now. Evil Empire is the best album. I wish I'd been into them before they split up.
>>By Flagg (Friday, 11 Nov 2005 20:36)
The evolution of a RATM fan. Look at Flagg's first, non-biased post, then getting a little biased when he finds out he likes them, then admitting he likes them a bit, and now saying he's one of their fans. Cool.
How anyone can say (not going to point fingers) Zach is a "sucky" lyricist is ludicrous. Zach is amazing, from his voice, I normally don't like rap, but I like his rapping, to his rhymes to all that he speaks for, he's absolutely amazing. Tom Morello is an amazing guitarist, he makes his own pedals. Half the songs I play on bass are RATM songs, I love his riffs.
>>By Urbane (Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 19:54)
Absolutely, and that was months ago. Now I love them even more! I listen to them pretty much every day. I find it close to unbelievable how much energy there is in this music, just how it makes you want to scream and run around and kick amplifiers around, but at the same time I find alot of the songs profoundly moving.
Now I'm discovering 'No Shelter' and Urbane this song proves your point, it has some of the best lyrics I've ever heard.
>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 29 Mar 2006 00:28)
>>By Sk8a H8a (Wednesday, 29 Mar 2006 15:17)
Before anyone gets any funny ideas, that's NOT me
>>By Sk8a H8a (Wednesday, 29 Mar 2006 15:17)
Wow. That's pretty, um... crap.
>>By Flagg (Wednesday, 29 Mar 2006 17:09)
To me, that's no worse than Rage Against the Machine... I'll admit that even Zack DLR is a better rapper, but I think his lyrics are even worse
>>By Sk8a H8a (Thursday, 30 Mar 2006 16:02)
I have to respond. I just can't let that post be the last thing on this message board.
I just can't comprehend how ANYONE could say that's anything like Rage. Listen to that guy's voice. Just listen! It's like no matter how hard he tries or how much effort he pours in it will never be possible to take him seriously. You can hear his British accent, it's ridiculous.
Zack's lyrics. Zack's lyrics never consisted of a LIST of things he doesn't like.
God I can't argue this point, please just listen to that thing and then listen to a Rage song, difference in quality speaks for itself.
And I'm gonna go back to what Sk8a said about Rage more than a year ago, and what I repeated a little later, about them not having caused any revolutions. I think we missed the point back then. What I think is that, much as Rage's music is about the masses and the welfare of whole races of people, it's also about Zack and his feelings and his pure passion for what he is saying. The answer to why they were such a great band isn't there in the analysis of the exact words he used (although I think the lyrics are brilliant), or in the difference between rock and hip-hop, it's just about the pure passion. Regardless of any other argument you've given, you MUST be able to hear that he is passionate, that he's pouring his deepest feelings into this music. And it doesn't matter that it didn't change anything, the important thing is it was there. In an age of politicians doing whatever the fuck they want and the media feeding people half-truths and rabid mass-consumerism robbing everyone blind, the fact that this music gets made is enough. And when everyday life is full of people going out of their way to be *nice* to eachother, not to offend anyone or upset anyone, to be pleasing and appealing and undemanding, to make sure everyone is at their ease and pretending we're all happy, it's just such a relief to be able to put on a cd and hear a grown man go 'RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!' through a microphone to a backing of ultra-distorted bass and guitar that sounds like a cat in terrible terrible pain.
And I'm not telling you to like Rage, I accept that no matter how passionate it is, it's not for everyone. I'm just saying this is why *I* like them, and I think this is probably why anyone likes them.
>>By Flagg (Thursday, 30 Mar 2006 17:13)
>>By MetalBladeRecords (Thursday, 30 Mar 2006 21:14)
"You can hear his British accent, it's ridiculous" - well, if you listened to the lyrics and read his profile, you'd know that he was bullied for that and that's why he learned to rap - I'm not gonna make any comments on his ability to do so - just that I think that his lyrics are better than Zack's
Liking Rage purely for being a band who speak out against the government and genuinely mean it seems ridiculous, coz there are so many many many other bands like that - okaeey, so a lot of them aren't as politically aware as Rage (I'll give them that at least), but Adolf Hitler spoke out against the government and was very politically aware - would you buy his albums if he'd recorded any?
To my ears, whatever you can say about Zack de la Rocha's strength of feeling in his vocals is negated by the fact that Tom Morello puts a dozen silly effects over his guitar lines! If you're gonna have raw vocals, have raw guitar - if you're gonna have crazy guitar effects, do something to the vocals... I've listened to Zack's solo stuff and it sounds a lot better for not having annoying guitar effects on it!
To get back to the gist of my original point (coz I seem to have drastically gone off it since I first posted on here), I really don't think Zack sounds any good in a rock band and I strongly dislike Tom's guitar effects - that's the heart of why I don't like Rage Against the Machine
>>By Sk8a H8a (Friday, 31 Mar 2006 12:18)
Well we're gonna have to agree to disagree 'cos I've said everything I can.
I know it's all a matter of opinion... but I really can't understand how you can think that guy's lyrics are better than Zack's. It's just a list of things he doesn't like.
>>By Flagg (Saturday, 1 Apr 2006 23:01)
Well, whatever - I just think the rhythm section are sort of okaeeyish and I'd probably like them a lot more with a different guitarist and singer
>>By Sk8a H8a (Sunday, 2 Apr 2006 14:04)
But then they wouldn't be Rage Against the Machine.
I look kind of like Tom Cruise, just totally different.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 2 Apr 2006 18:12)
...with the thoughts from a militant mind.
Hard line, hard line after hard line.
Landlords and power-whores, on my people they took turns.
This band were more than a band. They've made me into a different person.
>>By Flagg (Sunday, 9 Jul 2006 01:38)
Killing in the Name is the Christmas number 1 in the UK! Go us!
>>By Flagg (Monday, 21 Dec 2009 15:07)
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