Kurt Cobain
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oh my god...... lets NOT have this conversation!!! i know its a big mystery and we could fight about it forever, it took a few seconds for the heroin to sink in, which is time enough to pull a trigger.... its stupid to try and fight about this when its all just opinion....nobody really knows what happened on april 5th, so lets not try and prove eachother wrong.... yay...
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Friday, 16 Apr 2004 23:41)
totally tru bout the way he died (or according 2 sum he still lives) but everyone will always remember kurt cobain as the music legend!
>>By Cookie8Monster (Saturday, 17 Apr 2004 00:27)
i know we dont wanna have this conversation, but i just wanna say that a couple of weeks before he died, Kurt contacted a lawyer and asked to start a divorce from Courtney. now where i come from, if someone wants to divorce someone, that doesnt mean that they are extremely in love with that person. i know i'm sorry, a lot of people are gonna think i'm stupid for believing kurt didn't kill himself, but there's just so much that doesnt add up.
>>By SoulSlave (Saturday, 17 Apr 2004 06:47)
ok but please can we not talk about this? its tiresome and it always ends up the same as it was before...
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Saturday, 17 Apr 2004 10:59)
Yeah it's true, this argument is pointless, yet somehow I never get tired of it. Here's one point. IF Kurt had enough heroin in his blood to kill him and make him weak enough to not be able to pull the trigger, why would it even be NECESSARY for Courtney to make it look like he had comitted suicide? If that was the case, then Courtney could've just let him OD and die instead of fabricating a suicide. My point here is, there's no freaking evidence that Kurt was murdered that makes enough sense for the case to be reopened. Period.
>>By RaveOnCaroline (Tuesday, 20 Apr 2004 01:45)
very good point raveoncaroline! :)
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Tuesday, 20 Apr 2004 02:51)
Kurt was a tremendous talent. Unfortunately, we will never know just how talented he really was. Sorry, but I think it was extremely selfish of him to do what he did. Especially w/ a new child.
>>By Tiny E (Wednesday, 21 Apr 2004 22:34)
Humans ARE selfish. Kurt was a great human, but nobody could have expected anything more from him, truly...
>>By Sk8a H8a (Wednesday, 21 Apr 2004 23:23)
i dont think it was selfish, i know this sounds horrible, but i think Frances is better off without kurt.. if kurt had lived, then he would continue doing heroin and two parents doing heroin would be overwhelming for frances and it would be hard with him always coming and going on and off of tour and she would have a mixed up life and aaah i dont know i'm not saying its a good thing that kurt died, im just saying that frances might be better off without kurt..... ok now im making no sense, everybody just ignore me!
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Thursday, 22 Apr 2004 01:24)
All you guys have no idea what you're saying...especially you RaveonCaroline...no offense...but everything that you guys are saying are rumors and OPINIONS....nothing you guys have said is true...or can be proven...first off....it was a month before Kurt died that he od'd on some drug...no one said that it was an attempted suicide but Courtney...This was the first attempt that Courtney made to kill Kurt...not the first to succeed though. After Kurt awoke from his 20 hour coma...the first thing he did was write on a piece of paper 'F**K You' to Courtney cuz he knew that she tried to kill him...Kurt's doctor even said that it was an ACCIDENTAL overdose...Courtney always said that Kurt was suicidal up until his death...dont u guys see what she was doing...she was trying to convice everyone that Kurt was suicidal so that when she did kill him everyone would be like 'oh ya courtney was right this whole time...' and they wouldn't blame her...but everyone else who was close to Kurt like his bandmates and family and close friends knew that Kurt wasn't suicidal at all...Kurt had even said in many interviews a month or so before his death that he was the happiest he had ever been....Now, the "suicide note" that Courtney found when Kurt first attempted "suicide" wasn't a suicide note at all...all it stated was that he(Kurt) wanted to divorce Courtney....oh ya they were really much in love....<<<<for those of you who dont know that is "sarcasm"...n e ways, RaveonCaroline you are correct that Courtney couldn't have physically killed Kurt cuz she was in L.A. at the time but that's why she had someone do it...someone who is very close to Courtney...his name Michael "Cali" Dewitt..."Cali" was Frances Bean's nanny...and he was staying in the Seattle home where Kurt's body was found while Kurt was "missing". And of course the SPD (Seattle Police Department) didn't suspect it was nothing but a suicide b/c they didn't do a proper investigation...The SPD saw Kurt's body laying there with a rifle in his mouth and a supposed "suicide note" and automically assumed he killed himself. It was an open and shut case...About the second "suicide note", that wasn't even a suicide note...it mentioned nothing about killing himself...all it was stating was that he was leaving the music business...and if it was a 'suicide note' and if he did want his fans to read it why did he start it off "To Boddah". Boddah was Kurt's imaginary friend. It just was another random journal entry....and look at the very last five lines...that is the part of the supposed "suicide note" that does mention suicide...but the last five lines has a completely different handwriting style than the rest of the note. It seems as if someone wrote that in and wanted to let people know that Kurt did kill himself...They also took the note to the nation's best people who study different styles of writing...and they all agree that the last five lines are not Kurt's writing...someone else wrote that...here's a chilling fact...Tom Grant (the P.I. that was hired by Courtney to find Kurt while he was "missing") found a back pack of Courtney's that she used while she was staying in L.A. when Kurt's body was found...In the backpack he found a page of different styles of writing...as if Courtney was trying to copy cat someone's handwriting...and when you compare that to the last five lines of the "suicide note" they look a lot alike...freaky, huh? ...and for those of you who have seen the supposed autopsy picture of Kurt's head...the police has not released any such pictures...Kurt's head wasn't "blown off"....the day of his memorial service the doctors had to sew his eyes shut cuz they wouldn't close...now does that sound like someone's head was 'blown off'. It is also proven that it is scientifically impossible for Kurt to have inject that much amount heroin in his body and still have been able to roll down his sleeves..put the syringes neatly back in the box a few feet away from him...gotten the rifle and position it correctly then have enough strength to pull the trigger...that is highly impossible...Kurt had 3 times the lethal dose of heroin...1.52 mg to be exact....not even a hardcore drug addict w/a high tolerance level is capable of shooting themselves after they inject that much amount of heroin in their bodies....b/c it would affect your body and you would be unconscious in seconds...not minutes....seconds....There is just soo much more evidence that proves that Kurt was murdered and that he didn't kill himself...So many things just dont add up....and with that you can also re-open the case...one thing you might be asking yourselves is why haven't they re-opened the case....oh i dont know, maybe cuz the SPD is embarrassed and ashamed cuz they didn't do a proper investigation....and the whole nation would look down on that....so they're trying to save themselves the embarrassment. But if the media keeps going on and on about Kurt's murder then they would have no choice but to re-open the case. Courtney had many reasons to have Kurt killed....everything from money, supposed infidelity, divorce and music. And for the person who wrote Frances is better off w/out Kurt....oh ya you're sooo right, look at where Frances is at now...she's living w/Kurt's mother...b/c even Courtney is incapable of taking care of her daughter cuz she's always on drugs. Kurt was a great father...and Frances needs that in her life...Kurt always said how much France's birth changed his life for the better. Now, Frances has neither parents. If you have read Kurt's book entitled "Journals" then you are no fan of Kurt's. If you were a true Kurt Cobain fan you wouldn't even think twice about reading or even touching this book. This is a complete invasion of privacy. Kurt would sure as hell not let anybody read this. This book was given permission to be exploited by Kurt's murderer (yes, murderer) Courtney Love. The only reason she let them publish this book was so that she could cash in on it cuz she was going broke at the time. She received a reported 4.5 million dollars from this book. Here is a quote from Kurt that I got from a magazine after someone had stolen some of Kurt's journals/notebooks..."The most violating thing i've felt this year is not the media exaggerations or the catty gossip, but the rape of my personal thoughts. Ripped out of pages from my stay in hospitals and aeroplane rides, hotel stays etc...I feel compelled to say "f**k you". F**k you to those of you who have absolutely no regard for me as a person. You have raped me harder thatn you'll ever know." Kurt Cobain.... I suggest that if you are intruiged by this murder that you should read "Love and Death-The murder of Kurt Cobain" the authors are Max Wallace and Ian Halperin...It is an extremely great book and it proves that Kurt wasn't the only one in that room the night of April 5, 1994. I am not here to prove anybody wrong...i'm just here to open up your minds a little bit more. There is more to this "suicide" than what it seems... I have read tons and tons of books, magazines, newspapers and i've watched plenty of t.v. documentaries. I've heard both sides of the story and i'm very well convinced that someone killed kurt. Everything that i have mentioned here are all facts and can be proven. They're not rumors and not opinions....I am a true Kurt Cobain fan...and i think we need not only to bring justice to his family, friends, fans, and daughter but also to Kurt...."It is better to burn out than to fade away"...Kurt Cobain...R.I.P The voice of a generation............
If you have any questions/comments please feel free to email me at howyoudooin@hotmail.com
>>By odnanref (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 21:18)
i dont care, all that matters is that he's dead and nothing can bring him back so theres no point in arguing over this
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 21:57)
I agree you odnanref.We can't simplify the question
>>By semazen (Friday, 30 Apr 2004 22:53)
Sorry odnanref, but I have seen many documentaries, websites and read books about these conspiracy theories that supposedly "prove" that Kurt was murdered and I still don't believe it. Anyone who has spent time not only reading books about his death, but also about the REALLY important part (you know, the part where he was living and making great music? oohh yeah!) at the end of his life, Kurt didn't even HAVE any close friends except for those who he did heroin with, he was alienating himself from his bandmates, and he had very little communication with his family. So how would they even KNOW if he was capable of suicide? He always said Courtney knew him best of anyone. Also, sorry if this makes me a bad Kurt Cobain fan, though I don't believe anyone can really JUDGE that, but I've read the journals, and he even refers to a time when he was younger and tried to commit suicide. He also had a history of suicide in his family, a shitty past he couldn't outrun, and his dreams for his music were destroyed... he even had a shirt that said "grunge is dead." However, I would be open to it if they re-opened the case, and could somehow prove not just circumstantially, but SCIENTIFICALLY that Kurt was murdered.. it would certainly provide closure to a lot of people who loved him.
>>By RaveOnCaroline (Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:22)
Well, it may have been murder, and it may have been Courtney who arranged it, but we'll never know for certain. The point is that it doesn't matter. We don't have to worship Kurt Cobain. He's not a god.
>>By Flake 1.6 (Wednesday, 5 May 2004 15:20)
You bring up very good points RaveOnCaroline. But everything that you say is based on what you think or what you assume happened....Though you are right that Kurt alienated himself from everyone...but you forgot to mention one more person...he also alienated himself from Courtney...and just because Kurt lost a lot of communication towards the end of his life w/his bandmates, family, friends etc...that doesn't justify that they didn't know what type of person Kurt was...Even Dylan...Who Kurt said was his best friend and the person who he did drugs w/said that "Kurt was not suicidal...he's going through a lot of things right now in his life but Kurt can handle it pretty well" So there you go, Kurt's best friend and the person he did heroin with said that "Kurt was not suicidal"....Here's another important fact, a week or two before Kurt's death...he spent time w/his Grandpa LeLand and they were driving around in his Grandpa's Ford truck...Kurt was saying how much he loved that truck and that he wanted to buy one once he got back to Seattle and he wanted his Grandpa to acompany him...Kurt also made plans to go fishing w/his Grandpa a week after he died....Now, I'm not Shirlock Holmes or anything but i know for a fact that someone who is suicidal does not make plans in the future......Also, don't forget that Courtney and Kurt were going through a divorce...even Courtney has said that they were....Courtney even said to someone to get her the "most meanest most vicious divorce lawyer." RaveOnCaroline, you also said that in the book 'Journals' Kurt wrote that Courtney knew him best...He could've written that anytime from the very beginning of their relationship when they both were happy and when times were good but it doesn't mean he still meant it towards the end of his life...Kurt also has stated that his Grandma knew him best...that she was always there for him and that she was the only one that understood him. Even Kurt's Grandfather believes and is certain that his grandson (Kurt) was murdered....He has also stated that his grandson was not suicidal and that the last time they saw each other which was soon before his death, Kurt seemed very happy and not down and depressed like a suicidal person would be. I'm not trying to offend you in any kind of way RaveOnCaroline, but that's soo stupid to think that just b/c his family had a history of suicide that justifies that Kurt was suicidal...It's like saying "My Grandpa's gay so that means I'm gay"....That sort of stuff doesn't "run" in the family nor is it hereditary. Also, yes Kurt has tried to commit suicide when he was younger but that was when his life was really fucked up...he had a very severe stomach pain that he couldn't bare anymore. But towards the end of his life his life was how he wanted it to be and he was the happies he'd ever been...as he has stated in many interviews...and he loved his daughter soo soo much. He has also said that he didn't want his daughter to grow up the way he did....without parents....he has said that he would always be there for her and he would never make her feel alone like his parents made him feel. So, why would he take his own life. It just does not make sense. I have seen those pictures where Kurt was wearing a shirt that stated "Grunge is dead" while he was carrying Frances Bean...but that does not mean that his dreams of music was being destroyed...Whether he meant it or if it was just a joke..(as many of you know Kurt had a very good sense of humor) you shouldn't atuomatically assume and jump to conclusions that he felt his dreams of music was being destroyed. It probably just simply meant that grunge is dying and he's just moving on to other different musical projects. These are exactly the kinds of accusations that are based on opinions and rumors....You guys choose to believe what you want to think happened...I choose to believe the stuff that has been proven. Which leads to Kurt being murdered. I also look at people's behavior. Look at Courtney Love's irradical behavior before, during, and after Kurt's death. She did many questionable things and made very questionable choices. If they (Seattle Police Department) can't prove that Kurt was murdered, I just hope that they change his death from "suicide" to "undetermined" b/c it is just simply unfair to everyone. Especially, to the 100 copycat suicides that have occured since Kurt's death. Imagine if Kurt was murdered, while all these die hard Kurt Cobain fans are commiting suicide b/c they believe his idol did the same...that's just really really disappointing and sad. Think of how many lives we could've saved if the SPD did a proper investigation and determined that Kurt did not commit suicide. Think about it.....
>>By odnanref (Wednesday, 5 May 2004 18:21)
I dont think courtney killed kurt at all, but even if she did what use does it do dragging it up again and again - kurt is just as dead whether he killed himself or courtney did. You say that the verdict being changed to undetermined might have saved lives but honestly anyone who comits suicide as a copycat probably isnt all that stable anyway and i doubt the verdict being changed would have made much of a difference. There are always going to be people who think he was murdered and people who think that he killed himself and only courtney and kurt kno for sure.
>>By fish4ever (Wednesday, 5 May 2004 18:59)
Fish4ever, you're right...someone who commits suicide isn't a person who is all that stable and i highly recommend them to get some help immediately. But i do believe that if the SPD (Seattle Police Department) had done a proper investigation to begin with and determined that Kurt's death was "undetermined" there would've been a lot less deaths. B/C a lot of teenagers that committed suicide were depressed b/c of Kurt's death and they thought that was the easy way out b/c Kurt (their idol) did the same thing. Therefore copy catting Kurt's supposed suicide. So, changing the verdict would've made a big difference. It's common sense. And if in fact Courtney was behind Kurt's death then she should be put in jail just like any other human being should if they commited a crime. It's not fair to let her roam this earth freely just cuz she's a rock star. THAT'S WHY THE SPD SHOULD DO A PROPER INVESTIGATION!!! (dont you guys get it!?!?!) Once that takes place and if they do determine Kurt's death being a suicide then I like many many other people will be satisfied and we will stop talkin about all this and we can all live in harmony and do what we all love to do...listen to Nirvana and always remember Kurt Cobain as being ...to put it in simple words...one of the greatest guys ever.
>>By odnanref (Thursday, 6 May 2004 20:31)
look you guys when kurt killed himself it was because when he was doing his music thing he didnt want all the fame and thats what he got. So as much as i like nirvanas music kurt is dead now and although hell live on in all of us no doubt about it, i really do think hed like to rest in peace and have peopel stop questioning his death. He either killed himself or he didnt and either way we will never truly know whether we know the truth about it. Some say he killed himself some say its a conspiracy against alternative music, when laney stanley from alice in chains died they re opened his case and linked it to his death but in all honsety it doesnt really matter. I know alot of people who think he was murdered dont understand why he would want to kill himself, hed married courtney love had a son and was famous but thats why he killed himself. He didnt like or want fame and yet evn after his death hes famous, kurt wouldnt be happy if he knew he died in vain, i know he was a legend and his death was a tragedy but i dont think he needs eveybody singing his praises, it only take sone of us to name him a legend and its been said by many so let him rest in piece.
>>By spookygoth (Thursday, 6 May 2004 22:45)
ummm actually he had a daughter not a son.
>>By fish4ever (Thursday, 6 May 2004 23:20)
ya that's another thing...people...if you're going to be saying stuff about Kirt then get your facts straight....that's how rumors and false information starts.
>>By odnanref (Thursday, 6 May 2004 23:40)
Kurt not Kirt***
>>By odnanref (Thursday, 6 May 2004 23:42)
Well, odnanref, if all these things are true you write, can you explain me why there is no legal case made against Courtney Love?
>>By Campking (Friday, 7 May 2004 01:14)
do i have to speak french for you guys to understand me?!?!!?!? BECAUSE IT WAS AN OPEN AND SHUT CASE....no one can re-open the case but the police...so if they re-open it then we can make a case against Courtney Love....now do you get it......
>>By odnanref (Friday, 7 May 2004 16:14)
sorry my mistake son then but that doesnt effect the fact of the matter that hes dead and no one knows what the truth is does it. And there might not be a legal case against courtney love because she has the money to pay off the police if they did try and put this on her. Not taking sides here just saying it wouldnt make a difference if there was evidence she murdered him shed still get away with it. And while i understand that rumours have confused the issue we dont know what is rumour and what is fact do we. It could be a rumour that he killed himself and he may actually have been murdered but there was little evidence for the police to prove otherwise, im not saying thats what i believe coz in all honsety ive heard so many different theories i dont have a clue, but you cant disregard a theory you dont belief as a rumour coz we all seem to have some basis for believing what we do believe.
>>By spookygoth (Friday, 7 May 2004 17:04)
i dont kno if he killed himself or not, i think he did tho, even if he was murdered he had tried to overdose before and seems to have been pretty intent on killing himself anyway. I was just wondering, if courtney was in rehab at the time where was frances staying?
>>By fish4ever (Friday, 7 May 2004 18:23)
Kurt did not try to kill himself before...get your facts straight people....Frances was with Courtney in L.A. at the time of Kurt's death. Courtney was staying at a hotel in L.A.
>>By odnanref (Friday, 7 May 2004 18:27)
for goodness sake odnanref if you keep going on like that people will think you had something to do with it. lol I did here she was in L.A though ( thats why i thought the kid was a boy Frances is a boys name here) Like i was saying look its hard to get the facts straight and who made you an expert anyway, were you there NO you wernt so for all you know your source of info could be wrong. Just because you dont believe he may have tried to kill himself doesnt mean its a rumour and that he didnt. He could have.
>>By spookygoth (Friday, 7 May 2004 22:46)
Frances spelled Francis is a boys name but spelled with an E, its a girls name. Nobody knows for sure who killed kurt (it could be either himself, courtney or somebody courtney sent) and this all could turn very violent...verbally....
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Friday, 7 May 2004 22:52)
anyway i swear we have had this conversation before and it just goes round in circles. lets talk about something else. What does everyone think of nirvana's videos. I love heart shaped box. Its kind of like paintings by that bloke Dali.
>>By fish4ever (Friday, 7 May 2004 23:25)
Oooh I love the Heart Shaped Box video! Apparantly it was originally one of Kurt's dreams :) he has creepy dreams... I love the You know you're right video, only because it's got old clips of Kurt and the band
>>By idontknowdotcom23 (Saturday, 8 May 2004 12:25)
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