Avril Lavigne
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good songs consist not only of good music, but also of good lyrics. if she can't write good lyrics, then why doesn't she make her songs instrumental? that way i might even like them, i don't know. but this way, it0s just wrong.
and don't compare her to marilyn manson. i don't like that band too much either, but unlike other pop singers (including avril) they actually have something smart to say ...
>>By iva212 (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 08:16)
*doesn't fancy Avril and even if I did it wouldn't make me buy her albums*
Just because the lyrics aren't incredibly thoughtful or intelligent doesn't mean they're bad - they sound pretty and the singing is nice... if the songs were instrumental, it wouldn't be Avril Lavigne and also the verses and choruses would just repeat and sound boring - music doesn't have to be about making a statement; it should primarily be about sounding good
>>By Sk8a H8a (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 17:00)
and yet you make such a fuss about H.I.M.
>>By scarletnikki (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 20:00)
haha scarletnikki, i wouldn't have said it better myself.
anyhow, i don't mind her writing such stupid lyrics. but people listening to her stupid lyrics and calling her rock singer with attitude is what bothers me. she is disgrace to all punk and rock bands as long as she is considered one of those.
plus, creates very annoying army of musicaly uninformed little girls that wanna be like her.
>>By iva212 (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 20:52)
hehehe, well i was around when punk was, and i didn't like it much but really, avril isn.t punk, listen to the slits, the damned etc for punk!! people used to call blondie punk because she emerged at that time, but she was very good pop music.
>>By scarletnikki (Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 21:39)
I don't make that much of a fuss - Avril has some really great musicians behind her compared to Ville Valo's personal puppet collection who sound horrific
>>By Sk8a H8a (Friday, 14 Oct 2005 00:00)
OK, so Avril "punked" influence has helped make her music sucessful which, in turn, makes her a disgrace to punk...
Since when did punk rock get that pretentious?
Comparing Avril's lyrics to H.I.M. is like comparing apples and alligators-
One, you consume, the other consumes you.
Sk8a, Valo's "puppets" are supposed to sound like that. That's the whole point of the Scarry/Goth Rock scene. ;o)
>>By o0Helix0o (Friday, 14 Oct 2005 09:43)
valo doesn't write his lyrics in co-operation with proffesional song writers, as avril does. if she is so talented why does she need them? ... i could write a good song too if they were sitting near me, and i would tell them one good sentence and they would write the rest.
by same meanings, valo writes his music with cooperation of his band members, which mean they're not just puppets, and even if valo writes few songs himself, they have right to say something, because, unlike avril's band, theyre not just puppets that play whatever singer tells them. valo doesn't make HIM, 5 people do. avril makes... well, avril lavigne, and her supporting band doesn't even matter cause she never speaks about them anyhow. she speaks like she did everything herself. how damn annoying.
joy division started out as sort of punk band, then they added a bit darker stuff to their songs, but i know a lot of punks that listen to them, because you just know what is punk and what not. we don't need some know-it-all singer to tell us "i am punk because i say so. ignore the fact that my songs are pop" ....
>>By iva212 (Friday, 14 Oct 2005 10:12)
There are tons of talented artist that perform other peoples stuff, that's the music business.
Take Prince for example: the dude writes so much material he'll never lay it all down himself, nor does he want to.
He's probably written more stuff for other "talented" artists than you will ever know.
Avril Lavigne has helped other singers (like Clarkson) with her material...
Sometimes artists with a certain "flare" like Prince or Avril are asked to help give other artists a more diverse sound. Again, for more POP(ular) artists, that's standard procedure... that's how their labels make money. She still manages to contribute her own material, unlike other Pop Princesses (like Spears and J. Simpson). Her sound has more of an edge, Punk is definately an influence in her arrangements.
People can begrudge her for that I suppose, but the formula works.
>>By o0Helix0o (Friday, 14 Oct 2005 19:50)
"the formula works" exactly the point - you don't need to tear a song apart to its basic recording process to appreciate it... I like the sound of it, not the image
>>By Sk8a H8a (Friday, 14 Oct 2005 21:17)
Avril is manufactured, there is a place for her music ...no dought about that but thank god for bands or singers who write their own material and control the record companies rather than the other way around.Is Avril really any different to the sugarbabes or girl's aloud? she just carries the skater "punk" vague image.
>>By scarletnikki (Friday, 21 Oct 2005 17:21)
Sk8a, Is there any danger you might something that doesn't contradict yourself at some point? On the VH page you appear to be pulling apart both VH and RHCP into their constituent musical personalities rather than taking the whole acts as they stand with some kind of thoughtful perspective. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing y'know?
If you are aimimg to make music professionally/seriously you might like to think of a board like this as a place where you could learn more about how other people perceive music (who are as a musician ultimately those you will have to "entertain" (in the broadest of senses) to be successful)
Best Wishes and Happy Picking
>>By planet ear (Friday, 21 Oct 2005 20:58)
So the VH discussion's moved here, has it? In response to your comment about my age, clearly you've lost touch with what's relevant, since you're talking about VH on an Avril Lavigne discussion board... if it weren't for young people, the world would be lost
"Is Avril really any different to the sugarbabes or girl's aloud?" - maybe she's marketed in the same way, but the music is a million times better and it's not such an insult to one's ears
>>By Sk8a H8a (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 15:01)
1 I didn't comment about YOUR age
2 You introduced the age factor into the "debate"
3 I am commenting that you seem to present different and self-contradictory arguements for what essentially are your likes and dislikes as if you had some set of "objective criteria" for making your subjective comments
4 Clearly if you can contradict yourself so frequently when trying to present some rationale in defence of your likes and dislikes, claiming as you have in other boards that you are "a bassist" a "musician" and thus implying a more knowledgeable and informed position than the majority of posters then all I am doing is suggesting for the benefit of other posters that your comments are perhaps not as well considered as you seek to imply and that not all "musicians" would agree with your analysis. This would seem particularly relevant if one is claiming some specialist knowledge about a subject and I feel it IS relevant to add it to the discussion.
>>By planet ear (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 16:43)
Nah, I just know more about bass and you're the one who decided to use "children" as a derogatory term
>>By Sk8a H8a (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 17:45)
You know more about bass than me? I'm fascinated to learn that your opinion of my knowledge of bass (although you don't know who I am or what I do) is somehow less than yours perhaps you could enlighten me how you have come hold that opinion (you may assume that that that is a rhetorical question)? It seems terribly egotistical at first glance...... When I hire a bassist because my playing or programmimg isn't suiting the track I'm working on usually phone Winston Blissett as I have great respect for his playing musicality and professionalism (incidently so do Massive Attack, Lisa Stansfield and a host of others) if you feel I'm making a poor choice maybe you could contact me via Flork with your CV in the first instance.
I think technically anyone under the age of 18 is a child although I'd be happy to concede that many individuals are stunningly mature far earlier. I think in context it after your earlier post it was a rather deserved sideswipe :P
As for Avril L, well I suppose I'd see it this way: I looked down the credits of the album that contained "Complicated" when I was asked to transcribe a few of the numbers and saw a number of fairly "heavyweight" music industry names (I think Russ Ballard and one of the Lord-Alge brothers werre among them if my memory serves me right) I did at the time listen to the relevant tracks and a couple of additional tracks out of curiosity just to get a feel of what "the act" was about.
It struck me as a professional product aimed at a pop market with a lot of money being spent. It was very competently/professionally written, played and recorded. Rather like McDonalds food it was unchallenging and would satisfy an appetite. I didn't personally LIKE it, but it was hard to really dislike it either. With upmost repect to all involved I think they acheived exactly what they intended and just like McDonalds food (which I could eat if I were hungry and in a hurry but if time and finances permitted I'd probably rather not) it would fill a gap. Is the AL product really "musical art" well that's really down to the individual consumer/listener and I'm absolutely sure no one at the record company would think me in their "target audience", but for the record personally I prefer music that's a little more "home-cooked" with some more interesting ingredients
>>By planet ear (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 19:45)
hear hear, planet ear, it is wonderful to listen to a broad spectrum of music, manufactured pop has it's value , but it's also refreshing to listen to music that is more "home-spun". I personally found the 90's musically depressing, because the music industry seemed to be overfull with manufactured pop, and I love some of the newer bands emerging now.
>>By scarletnikki (Saturday, 22 Oct 2005 21:42)
Thanks Scarlet *bows
I think my memory was misleadinding me about Mr Ballard... should be Glen Ballard (co-wrote Jagged Little pill with Alanis too)... I have a feeling he's also involved with production of Van Halens new album too Sk8a (I haven't heard he has insisted on sacking the VH rhythm section so maybe he thinks they're ok too Sk8a - maybe you should take the matter up with him..... I'm sure he'd respect your viewpoint as self-appointed "Bass Guru".... LOL)
>>By planet ear (Sunday, 23 Oct 2005 16:03)
I can agree with your points about Avril Lavigne - I don't consider her a brilliant musical creation or anything like that - I just enjoy the music, as some people enjoy McDonalds food whilst still holding the opinion that it's unhealthy filth...
Your knowledge of bass is irrelevant as I wasn't comparing myself to you, but to the average Florker - maybe you know more than I do but that doesn't mean I'm incompetent and incapable of having an opinion on Avril's bassist
>>By Sk8a H8a (Sunday, 23 Oct 2005 16:07)
No worries Sk8a.......best of luck with the bass-playing, if you want to send a track you played on sometime let me know........
>>By planet ear (Sunday, 23 Oct 2005 17:55)
heh, really I'm not as good as perhaps I'm making out - I'm just really enthusiastic and I try to emulate those bassists I admire, but for me the greatest thing of all is just to play an important role in a band that sounds great as a whole... but yeah, I'll let you know next time I record a decent-sounding track
>>By Sk8a H8a (Monday, 24 Oct 2005 03:31)
She is fun to listen to as long as you remember not to take life to seriously. Why worry about what genre she places herself in. She isn't amazing by any means, but music is music, and thats what she makes.
>>By Artemis7.0 (Thursday, 16 Feb 2006 23:43)
sucks.
>>By ya-im-cool (Thursday, 16 Feb 2006 23:54)
Mmm, interesting point there, Mr. Cool, would you care to elaborate on why you hold such a blunt opinion of her? Or are you just an anti-social punk rocker who hates these emo kids calling themselves punks, and so think that automatically make Avril & Co "suck"?
>>By Urbane (Saturday, 18 Feb 2006 06:49)
actually.. i am not MR. cool... since i am a girl. I just don't like her music.. and i saw her name up on the discussion list so i decided to share my thoughts on her... which came down to... sucks.
>>By ya-im-cool (Sunday, 19 Feb 2006 03:51)
You can still be Mr... whyever not? Perhaps you'd care to share your thoughts more intricately with us - explain what it is about Avril that sucks?
>>By Sk8a H8a (Sunday, 19 Feb 2006 17:22)
i've just never cared much for her music. her voice is alright.. i just don't like any of her songs.. actually, i take that back. i remember hearing one of her songs and i thought it was good, but i don't remember what it was.
>>By ya-im-cool (Monday, 20 Feb 2006 02:35)
I'm With You is good
>>By Sk8a H8a (Monday, 20 Feb 2006 19:06)
To Skater gurl freak whatsit...if she ever returns
you know at first i thought maybe you were someone sane disguising themselves as this avril-freak, i dunno, maybe for some sort of sociological experiment or something....but you have been on this flork thing for years now commenting on avril and GC like a freaking obssesed maniac. Please tell me, are you really this horny for Avril?
>>By Artemis7.0 (Friday, 29 Sep 2006 01:35)
Avriiiiiiiil (: I'd forgotten how much I actually like her until I listen to her albums in succession yesterday, which was fun - yes, Avril is awesome
>>By Sk8a H8a (Thursday, 2 Nov 2006 13:17)
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