Anti-Flag
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you're right and anti-flag isnt against america and im sure they're grateful for what they have but they just want to make the country more fair for everyone rather than be a haven for the rich and a hell for the poor. i agree making music doesnt really change anything but for a lot of people it informs them and it gives people a feeling that they arent alone in thinking that the world can be changed for the better.
>>By ray (Friday, 5 Sep 2003 00:18)
hey! America's not so bad I mean living in this country is great, however from a world wide point of view we suck that's because the government(the ones who speak for us) is corrupted, the elections are rigged, the president and his followers are brainwashed and we call French Fries "freedom fries" because we don't support a nation who strives for peace and doesn't kill people? The statue of liberty, probably the most well known sign for American Freedom/independence, was given to us by the French... come on people OPEN YOUR EYES! I don't believe in anarchy (to believe in and strive for a state of no government)I believe in a state of a better government one that supports peace and doesn't make all it's desisions based on prejeduce and greed
ROCK ON!
>>By nosupremists (Sunday, 7 Sep 2003 00:31)
Anti-flag is awesome. their lyrics are so intelligent and true, and they don't just talk about the same old crap all the time, they have a few purely funny songs and a good half of their songs are funny in how true they are if you read the lyrics and they make great analogies, they word everything so perfectly. They aren't the only good band but they sure as hell are one of them!
>>By nosupremists (Sunday, 7 Sep 2003 01:10)
Well i here a lot of people saying that people are brain washed by the US
but if your listening to anti flags music you could be getting brain washed
by them.
The best thing to do if you want to change the world is to get a
EDUCATION
T1baid: Education is also brainwashing..... (note: I am a teacher)
Edwardo: It is never protesting against war that starts war: wars are started by people who will stay savely out of the bleeding zone...
Remember that your first man himself never served in the American army, and now send people to the dying fields...
The war would have started without any protest as well, some people namely had decided that Saddam would have to go, and he didn't stay because we were protesting the war.. He stayed because he ain't a sweet pie either....
Short sight always brings to soaring wounds...
>>By Campking (Sunday, 7 Sep 2003 01:44)
why isn't anyone talking anymore I want a good debate damnit!
>>By nosupremists (Monday, 8 Sep 2003 03:20)
then say something intelligent.......
>>By Johnny K (Tuesday, 9 Sep 2003 21:52)
You write there is nothing to debate about? euhm, do you actually read other mailings? Guess there were some people actually debating here.............
>>By Campking (Tuesday, 9 Sep 2003 23:37)
yea I read the other ones, I wanted a debate to start again and noone said anything for a couple days get off my fucking case
>>By nosupremists (Wednesday, 10 Sep 2003 02:02)
I am sorry, didn't know it was YOUR case.... instead of asking people to start a debate, you might try and start it up yourself.. seems to make more sence to me then to get pissed over a small comment..
anyway: here is my piece: A few months I worked on a show in 013 where Anti Flag was playing... whilst doing the show I noticed that the public of Anti Flag are for a big part youngsters.. That's not a problem for me; I appreciate people liking good music, but what disturbed me a bit is that everyone just said amen to every word antiflag said... It looked like a political gathering of the communistic party where the leader speaks and the rest just comes to say yes.. now I am wondering if this is what antifkag wants.. I think that they want people to think for themselves and hopefully figure the same things out as they did when the looked around and saw what is happening in America/the world.. I don't think that they want these kids to just follow them in a blind "wave", but I fear that some of these kids just say yes and amen to what they say, but never let an othr thought about it in real life...
so my question to you fans is: do you only like the music, or do you go for the political message and live up to that, also when you are not listening to Ant-Flag... Did they make you "aware"?
>>By Campking (Wednesday, 10 Sep 2003 11:16)
i like anti-flag a lot and i do get their message and listen to their message i love america..im going into the airforce when im out of high school...and for people who say that anti-flag hates america they don't here's a quote from them:
Whats so anti-establishment w/ the idea of wanting peace?
Why is that so antiestablishment?
Why is wanting to be told the truth anti-establishemnt? These aren't anti-establishment ideas
These are pro fucking peace ideas
-Anti-Flag-
>>By emogirl (Thursday, 11 Sep 2003 02:17)
anyone who thinks america isnt full of shit needs to read a history book. i mean a REAL history book. not the ones you got in grade school.
>>By bluecollaraddict (Thursday, 11 Sep 2003 10:02)
History books are always subjective, so I fear noone will ever see the whole picture.. Though I agree that the United priesthood of America under one flag and one god is full of shit.....
The enemy is within......
>>By Campking (Thursday, 11 Sep 2003 17:02)
anti-flag = great shit
>>By punk_child_8713 (Friday, 12 Sep 2003 02:31)
Show me a country with a perfect history, and I'll show you a green dog.
>>By Johnny K (Saturday, 13 Sep 2003 03:44)
hmm... Campking, sorry I got so pissed off I was having a really bad day. I agree with what you say (which is kind of ironic heh) and yes they did make me more aware but not so much because from a young age my dad would tell me all about the government and such and they say many of the exact things he says this is why I like them so much and agree with most of what they say...however I don't just take it all for granted I actually think about it and some things they say aren't exactly my beliefs. that is my statement
also to bluecollaraddict America is not full of shit it is indeed one of the best countries in the world we have a shitty and prejeduce history,gas gussling SUV drivers, a mostly corrupt government and a lot of powerful and greedy coorporations but we are also a free country and we have a lot of intelligent and motivated people trying to make a difference I have hope in America and you should think twice before you condemn a whole country without the whole country in mind
>>By nosupremists (Saturday, 13 Sep 2003 05:12)
but we are also a free country
Be sure that your Gov is not taking that away from you.. there are some American writers who don't find pressing in America (?) that have some sever criticism on the dissappearing of the freedom rights in America...
a lot of intelligent and motivated people trying to make a difference
I know.. and I don't hate the whole of America: Hell, most of the music I listen to is American, and the music I make is also based on a mix of European and American Music history.. when I talk about The America I dislike/Hate, I am surely not talking about it's population.. I talk about that Corrupt Gevernment you were talking about.. The Masters of War (those who search to do destroy), the NRA, company's making weapons for mass destruction, etc etc etc.....
I don't like to be asked if I am a pod head just because I am dutch, so believe me I won't judge Americans on being American: I will judge them on what they say and do.... As I want to be judged.....
To quote again one of my own lyrics.....
"What's the use of your tolerance, when you can't tolerate intolerance...?"
>>By Campking (Saturday, 13 Sep 2003 16:16)
is this discussion still going? why isn't it on the selection page?
>>By nosupremists (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 02:29)
oh cool now it is
>>By nosupremists (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 02:29)
yes I know that there are many other free countries, CampKing and this is why I get so pissed off at all of those patriotic drones with all of there "freedom" crap. We are one of the free countries but we have, probably the shittiest government and most corrupt corperations of all of these great free nations so why the fuck do so many people think we're so much better than the rest...we really aren't , from the world-wide stand point. But it's a pretty good life...(living here) and I hope to see America turn it's shittiness into....not shittiness but for now I'll just do my part to change it...from the inside
>>By nosupremists (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 02:36)
i've actually seen a green dog!!
>>By emogirl (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 03:59)
holy shit no way
>>By nosupremists (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 04:01)
America's government isn't the most corrupt by far. It's just corrupt on a bigger scale because for a long time America has had a very powerful economy. But just look at the Ivory Coast, where the president earns more than the president of France, and Swaziland, where the king spent twice the year's health budget for the entire country on his own private plane. Africa, the continent where racist Mugabe is constantly complaining about Bush while his own evil schemes are ignored, is the most corrupt place of all. America just has more money to be corrupt with. At least there's no Civil War and the SS (Schutzstaffel/Secret Service) don't torture people. If you think American government is corrupt now, just look at the history of Harding's time as President. Then tell me the Bush administration is corrupt.
>>By Sk8er H8er (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 19:45)
In history these countries with a short hostory of "democracy" are refered to as Banana-republics.. they are no serious democracies yet..
Mugabe is not a rasist, he just wants the land stolen by white kolonist and imperialists back for his own people.. rightious yes, but his methode are surely not...
I never said that the Bush government is Corrupt: I said they are doing everything to get more power to the federals and take more power away from the people..
Next to that I have a deep felt believe (yes, I say believe) that Bush is actually the son of Satan, who came here to destroy the world.. their are few people who look less sympathetic to me then O. B. Laden, but Bush is surely one of them.. he has a spark of evil in his eye, just wonder why all these other people don't see.........
>>By Campking (Wednesday, 24 Sep 2003 20:10)
yeah that makes sense exept for one thing... Satan-evil as he may be is definately smart...not wise or morally correct but intillectually smart...Bush however is not. Maybe it's a disguise heh... yeah there are other more corrupt governments but as you say the US is just so rich and powerful that they can affect a bigger area and therefore in some ways are corrupt on the largest scale.
I think a lot of all this corruption has to do with the HIGHLY subsidised gasoline companies. My conspiracy is that these oil companies helped with that fucked up election to get Bush in the "throne" so to speak because they knew that he would, being the idiotic warmonger he is, would attack Iraq especially because he had a grudge against Saddam and being of low-intelligence he would be a puppet easily manipulated by his puppetier (the oil companies) and of course the reason that they wanted him to do this is because Iraq is fucking loaded with oil...well there's my conspiracy...
>>By nosupremists (Thursday, 25 Sep 2003 00:44)
oh by the way sk8ter h8ter: I said "probably the shittiest government and most corrupt corperations of all of these great free nations" I did not say that we have the most corrupt government of even all the free nations just the most corrupt corperations and did not compare us at all to the countries who are not free...
>>By nosupremists (Thursday, 25 Sep 2003 04:01)
Satan? I think Bush looks more like a chimpanzee. As long as it's a deep felt beleive and not a dream, CampKING...
I thought banana republics were the Caribbean islands, but I'm not going to argue with a history teacher. Mugabe has no right to evict the white colonists from their lands. It's just like Hitler sending the Jews to the ghettos to get "lebensraum" back for his people.
You can't divide the countries in the world into "free" and "not free". Total freedom is anarchy, and no freedom would be a concentration camp. Personally I'd prefer to live under the corrupt but protective blanket the civilized world provides. I just hope I never have to live in a country ruled by a true dictator.
>>By Sk8er H8er (Thursday, 25 Sep 2003 19:24)
Mugabe has no right to evict the white colonists from their lands. It's just like Hitler sending the Jews to the ghettos to get "lebensraum" back for his people.
Slight difference is that: The Jews never took the land from the germans (infact the british were in what was widely know as the promised country of the jews at that time), the British did take the land from the blacks, and took the blacks from the land. Something you must be able to see in America everyday (we dutch proudly helped with this big people moving...)
The point is that, thanks to years of colonisation, the whites have with a minorty of 10/15% of the population something like 80% of all ground. After years of negotation with the British government to make sure that when these people would get a decent repayall to give back the stolen land (see here the contradiction, normally one would be taken what he had stolen and be send to jail) to start over in Great Brittain..
As in so many things th West didn't take all this to serious, and never really kept their promises, as the white farmers didn't. And than came Mugabe: He gave th white farmers two options: or you go now, or I kick you out.. he gave them a years notice, and now the farmers are angry, and, because the farmers are white, America and the rest of the "civilized" world are angry and keep saying that Mugabe should leave them alone...
and it is true that the methodes of Mugabe to get the country back (read well: BACK) aren't signs of good behaviour, and will probably hit the history books (mostly written by white people) as outrages, bloody and against all norms of the civilized world. Remeber well that the civilized world became what it is because of not such civil actions in Africa with African people to outragesly enrich themsleves and spread like a desease over the world (to stay in you WWII vocobulair)......
Maybe it is payback time....
SO
LET'S GIVE IT BACK...
IT BELONGS TO THEM
>>By Campking (Thursday, 25 Sep 2003 20:43)
"Remember that your first man himself never served in the American army, and now send people to the dying fields... "
As a matter of fact, you're right, Dubya never was in the army, he actually served in the Air Force.
"I never said that the Bush government is Corrupt: I said they are doing everything to get more power to the federals and take more power away from the people.."
How could you say that a supporter of tax breaks to stimulate jobs tries to take power from the people? oh wait, never mind, government employees don't have to worry about jobs. you are a teacher, right?
"Next to that I have a deep felt believe (yes, I say believe) that Bush is actually the son of Satan, who came here to destroy the world.. their are few people who look less sympathetic to me then O. B. Laden, but Bush is surely one of them.. he has a spark of evil in his eye, just wonder why all these other people don't see........."
That is a pretty bold statement. Have you ever met the man?
I belive that these freedom fighters/torturers who kill American Soldiers are jackasses and are the true sons of Satan/Saddam.
And i know that we skrewed up in fighting this war, and we should leave, but we would really be skrewing up if we all left tommorow, without cleaning up our mess.
>>By Edwardo (Thursday, 9 Oct 2003 07:39)
by the way, shouldent we be talking about anti-flag
>>By Edwardo (Thursday, 9 Oct 2003 07:41)
How could you say that a supporter of tax breaks to stimulate jobs tries to take power from the people? oh wait, never mind, government employees don't have to worry about jobs. you are a teacher, right?
and when the time gets bad I have to worry as much about my job as anyone else..... For starters; dutch system aint the same as american, second: I have a year contract.....
How could you say that a supporter of tax breaks to stimulate jobs tries to take power from the people?
Tax breaks might be nice, but I am talking about all the antiterrorist laws, the broadening of the rights of federal institutes to dig in to the private lives of people. Remember Wacco, well wacco can happen to you now...
somewhere earlier in this discussion I recommended some books, by American authors, I know they are hard to get in America at th moment. This because the press is affraid to give a protesting voice against the government. Because "those who are not with us, are against us" (let's talk about a bold statement).
I would recommend you to read this bookds still, and to start with a small pocket book of Gore Vidal (perpetual war for perpetual peace). after reading that, you might find that you are more and more living in a Orwellian state.......
Besides: tax breaks for me are not a way of giving power to the people. Taxbreaks are for me ways to break down socialsecurity, a health system, the educational system, because taxbreaks always mean less money in the statewallet: and the first to be cut are Socialsecurity, Health ...., ........
and that all for economy.......
That is a pretty bold statement. Have you ever met the man?
On another discussion on this board I have said something about the understanding of irony!
I belive that these freedom fighters/torturers who kill American Soldiers are jackasses and are the true sons of Satan/Saddam.
that to me is an even bolder statement: 1) Did Saddam lie when he said: I have no weapons?
2) When he lied, where is the proof?
3) Was Saddam the dictator and serial killer that the us made believe (I Bush say that he was in the top 3 of worst dictators of the 20th century: let's go; Saddam did an appr. 10.000 - I am aiming high- now you go and compare them with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, the red Khmer, Pinochet etc etc....
The big difference should be that 4 out of the 5 above didn't do it with American weapons, like Iraq does.
So yes your right, you shouldn't had been there. But atleast now your gov can start and tell the truth... we came for the oil, beacuse that would be good for our economy, besides did Bush want to be re-elect and a war always helps to get the focus away of internal problems.... so now he will surely get re-elected (did he create more jobs?, Do you feel more secure now in America? Isn't THAT what he promised, not to attack Iraq - well maybe to his daddy: "PLease son, can you finish it for me, when you become president", "Oh yeah dad, as soon as I find an excuse, I'll bomb the bastards."
So yes, leave, and let the VN clean up your mess, with you financiel aid....
AND WHY IS SUCH A DISCUSSION ON A ANTI-FLAG DISCUSSION BOARD.. AS YOU MIGHT KNOW, AF IS QUIET POLITICALLY CHARGED. AND THY WERE AGAINST THIS WAR FROM THE START. ARE AGAINST MORE FEDERAL INFLUENCE IN YOUR PRIVATE LIVES.... THAT'S WHY IT IS HERE....
I care more about the message of Anti-Flag then about the music.......... Though they are a nice and skilled band....
>>By Campking (Thursday, 9 Oct 2003 11:05)
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