Discussion: Nine Inch Nails

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whatever, the album is a very good one, i am not disappointed at all!

>>By Eli_Molko



I haven't listened to it for a while now, mainly because I've been listening too (shameless plug) Catch Without Arms by the wonderful Dredg, and Ghost Reveries by the even more wonderful Opeth.

Go purchase, for within your CD changer is ''Right Where they Belong''.

>>By Stinkfist



i just bought nine inch nails downward spiral on DVD-AUDIO and i must say for any fan of NIN to not know about dvd-audio it's a sin!! sound quality is unsurpassed . you can hear every twisted scream as clearly as the vocals to closer! trent has re-released downward spiral on dvd-a, and has ofcourse released with teeth on the same format, ANYONE WITH A DVD-PLAYER CAN ENJOY DVD-AUDIO, SO GET YOUR COPY BEFORE YOUR GOVERNMENT BURNS THEIRS!

>>By onetattooedfukka



right...so youre not a NIN fan...well neither was i till i heard this album. i was always a little...scared of the music it was WAY TOO INTENSE for me. lets not lie here, i fantasize about fucking that guy from my poli sci class with Closer blasting in the background but that was as far as i got. but once a friend played With Teeth for me this past summer my entire perspective changed. its impassioned and feirce and makes you wanna scream out loud, while it speaks all the words you could never say. the instrumentation, lyrics and songs are entirely intoxicating and no matter who you are you will find somthing on the album that speaks to you. maybe its jmust me but NIN music gets me incrdibly horny...does that make me weird?

>>By gilly



Frankly, I do think Trent Reznor is a bit of an ass, but hey, most frontmen are snobbish, and I guess they have that right.

I heard the song Closer, and was pretty much turned off by the music, all though I think Rammstein's stuff is funny (maybe the language barrier prevents me from noticing my hypocrisy?).

For me, I dunno, I just don't like American industrial much, save Ministry's "Psalm 69". I guess there is just something about growling Europeans that is a must have in my industrial *shrug*

>>By Nyctophobia



Ok, can I just say something here. Can people please try to understand that Closer is, in absolutely no shape or form, intended to be a sexy song. Anyone who can read deeper than just a thin layer of meaning will know it's not even about sex, it's about degredation and self-loathing, among other things, and is an important step Trent takes in The Downward Spiral's well, downward spiral into montrosity.

I bet he laughs his ass off at all the many people who completely fell into his trap and can't see past the funky bassline and sexually agressive hook, and regard one of his most abysmally dark and tortured songs as a ''turn on''.

>>By Stinkfist



I'm not debating the use of allusions and metaphors in the lyrics.

I am also not criticizing the song for even being suggestively sexual. If you will note, I am an avid fan of Rammstein who is much worse than Nine Inch Nails. In terms of derogatory lyrics that is.

My argument is simply that I think the song would be much better if the so-called "sexually aggressive hook" was modified into something intelligent sounding. Hearing the line "I want to fuck you like an animal" does not suggest creativity or intelligence, on the contrary, it is quite the opposite. And because of that, the song, for me, is a turn off.

Had I not felt insulted by you questioning my open-mindedness, I would not have replied. But having already done so, I would suggest that if you really seek "dark and tortured" songs, I recommend Laibach. Lyrically, they may not be gruesome, but they will make you think.

(http://www.nskstate.com/main.php)
(http://www.gla.ac.uk/~dc4w/laibach/works.html)

>>By Nyctophobia



...and I was not actually addressing you with that post, in fact I hadn't even read your first post until now. I scrolled down the page, had my eye caught by someone describing a fantasy about screwing some guy with Closer playing in the background, and decided to throw in my two cents.

But anyway, if you must join the hundreds of others I've debated with about this song, then whatever. ''Intelligent sounding''? I think you're missing the point. He deliberately uses the phrase ''fuck you like an animal'', and the song wouldn't work if he changed it to please the syllable junkies into something like ''My desire is to copulate with you in the manner of a intellectually inferior land or sea dwelling creature''. Swearing and 'taboo' subjects (in this case sex/sexual violence) hold a very important place in the English language, and if used for effect as it they are in Closer, they can communicate emotions far better than more ''intelligent'' vocabulary.

>>By Stinkfist



"they can communicate emotions far better" so why does he use a metaphor?

>>By Sk8a H8a



I think you may be misunderstanding me.

What I said was that I disagree with his terminology for that given line. I'm not questioning the nature of the song or anything of the sort, I just find it to be displeasing because of the words used. That is an oppinion reflective of myself and how I feel about music. I know why such a phrase would be used, because it is, as you hinted at, a method of stirring up the masses. It would be very similar to the use of totalitarian imagery in Eastern European music. However, people may find it offensive and there is nothing wrong with that.

>>By Nyctophobia



The actual sound of the music itself can be offensive to some; for example any sort of dissonance or a breach of Bach's harmony is offensive to the ears of those who stick rigidly to the laws of music, but that doesn't mean it's not intelligent or creative - in fact, breaking free from such restrictions, as NIN do, can be seen as more intelligent and creative than just blindly obeying the rules - so it takes total open-mindedness to appreciate such music

>>By Sk8a H8a



Love ya, Nine Inch Nails

>>By Coma-White



Oh, they're coming in Oakland on the 19th this month, i hope i'll be able to see them, really excited about it:)

>>By Eli_Molko



Lots of songs have more than one meaning guys. I'm sure Closer is about sex, I'm sure it's about self-loathing too.
But I definitely take your point Stinkfist, NIN songs often appear to be about sex or a relationship and are really about something else. Like Sanctified says 'if she says come inside i'll come inside for her' and so on but apparently it's about cocaine.

Anyway, saying the lyrics/music are too aggressive is no real argument against Reznor since he makes his lyrics and music aggressive deliberately, it's just that you don't like that. I don't listen to hip-hop or classical music, I don't think they're crap I'm just not a part of the scene for either of those genres. Same thing if you ask me.

>>By Flagg



how bout the newer songs like "hand that feeds"....simple and catchy as hell
it absolutely rocks-trent never ceases to amaze me. i love his sense of rhythm. he puts out tracks that are rock/metal/industrial dance songs.
and the lyrics are great - he wants to challenge the listener and himself to stand up to the man..feelings of despair, sorrow, selfishness, anger....all the while he has his doubts as to whether he is strong enough to bite the hand that feeds...

definitely worth a listen

"so naive...i keep holding on to what i want to believe..."

>>By voice of reason



my theory on 'the hand that feeds' is that the hand doesn't belong to 'the man' but to trent. trent's weaker side. i think it means when he's really depressed and losing the will to live he starts to automatically blame other people for it. like he blames people he hates ('piggy' and 'march of the pigs') or he blames god ('terrible lie') or drugs or anything, as long as he doesn't have to take responsibility for the mess he's in. and i think biting the hand that feeds means rather than doing the easy thing, blaming other people and staying the way you are, it means standing up and accepting responsibility for your own problems, then doing something about it. that's just my guess. apparently that was kind of a theme for 'the fragile'.

but agree, nin lyrics are brilliant and quite underrated on this message board.

>>By Flagg



i see where you are coming from with the message of 'the fragile'

the song definitely has to do with taking responsibility and standing up for change...
but i disagree with your interpretation.

"what if this whole crusade is a charade and behind it all there is a price to be paid for the blood on which we dine, justified in the name of the holy and the divine."

..it is painfully obvious ...going to war with false information and poor reasoning....our crusade is a charade....OIL IS BLOOD... and OUR god sanctifies intervention...

all i have to say is "ARE U BRAVE ENOUGH TO SEE? DO U WANT TO CHANGE IT?"

>>By voice of reason



Ah, I never knew what that bit said. Yeah you're probably right.

But I still think my idea is possible. 'So naive, I keep holding on to what I want to believe'. Well hardly anyone wants to believe in the judgement of the government and the way they do things.

Or maybe it's just that Trent has always seemed to be very centred on himself, which is no bad thing, in the themes of his work. I assumed he was carrying this on in this song rather than - uh - raging against the machine heh.

>>By Flagg



I thought we'd agreed that the songs could have more than one meaning?

>>By Sk8a H8a



usually artists have one intention/conception..

do u disagree?

i will admit that the menaing for all of us will be different

>>By voice of reason



well when i said about 'closer' and 'sanctified' and whatever else i mentioned having two meanings, i really meant one meaning being a metaphor for another (eg. sex and self loathing).

i'm in two minds about 'the hand that feeds'.

anyway it doesn't matter, it's a great song whatever it's about.

>>By Flagg



Maybe the whole Iraq war thing is a metaphor for a feeling of responsibility?

>>By Sk8a H8a



Come to that, maybe all music is a metaphor for the fact that the artist has something to say.
Depends where you wanna draw the line I guess.

>>By Flagg



i think trent certainly feels a sense of responsibility in the song "hand that feeds"...
its about personal turmoil...i get a feeling he is angry with himself

does anyone feel that he may be self-loathing for perpetuating a system?>>...??

trent did not have positive action(per se) in this perpetuation.. but feels angry and upset with his lack of confrontation and action...and with the fact that he is rich and famous and subservient...

the music industry is certainly a cog in the great big capitalist machine....

i guess i'll go over to the ratm thread

>>By voice of reason



Not all music... after all, "All the best bands have done at least one stupid song about nothing much at all" and most instrumentals are not intended as metaphors... but the point here is that Trent's lyrics are metaphors within metaphors

voice of reason: I'm with you on that

>>By Sk8a H8a



Touche.

I still find it slightly hard to believe Trent suddenly switched the focus from his own problems to the world's. I mean alot of people are flaunting their opposition to Bush and his war, and I'd like to think Trent is as sincere as he always was. Of course, Bush has given us alot to hate.

About instrumentals though, my favourite track by NIN - Just Like You Imagined - is an instrumental.
But the thing that puzzles me about them (apart from classical pieces named for the musical form or structure or key or whatever) is the names. Why is it called Just Like You Imagined? Why not some other name? It can't be something to do with the lyrics as there are no lyrics. But I found listening to it, the music *does* sound like the phrase 'just like you imagined'. It sounds sinister and tense. Which is the beauty of instrumentals: the fact that they have a name suggests they are 'about' something, but the music itself has to tell you what that something is, rather than being a backing track to the vocals, which tend to carry most of the meaning in songs.

>>By Flagg



Personally I think the best way to write a song is to decide what it's about, write the music around that idea and then write the lyrics and then make the lyrics fit with the music

>>By Sk8a H8a



If it's gonna be a song with a real meaning, that is - if it's meaningless and just for the beauty of the music, just write what sounds good

>>By Sk8a H8a



Yeah.
But I said, there are tracks like Just Like You Imagined where although there are no lyrics, the music sounds like the name of the track. I don't know how that's done, I think it's what makes Trent a genius.

>>By Flagg



Well, his lyrics are also genius...
If you write a song that just sounds good, you can listen to it and then decide what you think the music sounds like and there you've got your name... not sure why you think that's genius

>>By Sk8a H8a



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