Guys, guys, innocent until proven guilty. This is, along with democracy, is the foundation of our civilisation and as a concept embodies the ideals of justice, rationality and equality that surely alll of us, ALL of us aspire to. HOW can we judge this man until every shred of evidence has been considered, examined and fairly deliberated upon by a jury of this poor man`s peers?
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I say leave the kiddy fiddling nonce alone.
>>By docjay (Wednesday, 16 Feb 2005 23:16)
Some lively and interesting debate, I particularly liked the hypothetical points about age of consent and societal attitudes towards hetro and homosexual relationships. None of it changes the fact that Jackson is not content to sit back and have his day in court but is determined to whip up a media circus to influence the course of his trial. Hospital admission for flu? Is he 80? Its a joke.
>>By monkeyfeet (Thursday, 17 Feb 2005 12:49)
well...after all the surgery he has had im not surprised if his immune system is down! its a shame he wasted so much money and ruined his looks. never mine eh! each to their own i guess.
>>By molkos_lover (Friday, 18 Feb 2005 23:27)
did you know if a person with a mental age of less than 9 is a paedophile he/she does not go onto a register, even if they have done it more than once. Society is still blind to what goes on , and prefer not to know. michael's talent makes people think he couldn't have done anything wrong too. Lets' hope the court case discovers the truth . I find it very sad that some people prefer to blame the parents as money seekers.
>>By scarletnikki (Monday, 21 Feb 2005 14:42)
fair comment, and actually quite interesting fact. but does he have a mental age of that young? i dont think he has, otherwise he wouldnt have been so successful. also, i dont think his success should instantly mean he is innocent. he should have a fair trial like everyone else. but talent does seem to taint things in the public eye i guess. sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better.
>>By molkos_lover (Monday, 21 Feb 2005 15:24)
for those interested, check out www.mjjsource.com got loads to do with the court case on there :o)
>>By molkos_lover (Wednesday, 2 Mar 2005 10:38)
maybe i should take the moral high ground
soothe myself with the
"innocent 'til proven guilty" mantra
but i can't people
MJ is an emotionally crippled freak
(& spent musical force)
who never made the leap into adulthood
surrounds himself with compliant kids to live out his fantasies
he should have been jailed a decade ago for the same shit
$$$$$ saved his sorry-ass
(go to 'smoking gun.com' for sworn testimony & other documents concerning that case)
despite my unflinching belief in his guilt
i don't hold out much hope for a conviction
outta 12 people sitting in the jury box
at least 1 is going to succumb to "celebrity-itis"
ignore all the sordid details
could you imagine a verdict of guilty
MJ taking his first walk on the main exercise yard at Folsom Prison
i would suspect that at the first hint of physical danger
(let's see, what's quicker than "in a nano-second" ?)
he would start grabbing his crotch & singing in a falsetto voice
"WHO'S BAD" !!!
& another thing
any parent who would leave their kid(s) unsupervised
at neverland ain't getting any parenting awards from me
>>By Helmet (Thursday, 3 Mar 2005 01:57)
FACT: there has been NO DNA evidence found in his bedroom do support the charges.
FACT: the mother of the accuser in current case HAS been diagnosed as scitzo
FACT: mother of accuser has a history of filing suits against celebrities which were proven false, and changes her story
FACT: the so called "abuse" was not reported to the police until AFTER she had spoken to solicior after solicitor finding out how much money she stands to gain if she took such case to court
MICHAEL JACKSON IS INNOCENT. no dna is enough to say that to me. i am confisent he will walk away a free man. if he doesnt then there is seriously something wrong with the justice system.
>>By molkos_lover (Thursday, 3 Mar 2005 09:34)
oh come on
his DNA could be all over that kids Spongebob underpants
you still wouldn't believe in his guilt
celebrity & wealth
the 'bullet-proof vest'
that grants the wearer the licence to act & behave as they wish
& if you go too far
& things take a legal turn
you only have to scream , "extortion" !!!
because you know
there'll always be a segment of the population
eager to buy into it (hook, line & sinker)
as for the "FACTS" above
by any chance would they have come from that
pro-MJ website you mentioned.
what's your stance on giving kids wine in coca-cola cans ?
(or are those flight attendents & caterers lying extortionists too?)
>>By Helmet (Thursday, 3 Mar 2005 23:26)
coincidence???? 2 of the kids, who never met had the exact same story...hmmmm, i wonder????.....and yes the almighty$$$$$$$$$$$ will probabbly set him free, and guess what...we will all hear of another incidence in the future. i feel sorry for his kids....will they be next???
>>By coca (Friday, 4 Mar 2005 22:20)
if you had paid attention to the rest of the debate, youd know i said....if they find hard evidence which prove him guilty of sexually abusing the kid, then he deserves to do his time. but without the evidence, your right, i wont believe it. im not a tabloid junkie, i dont get off on second/third hand gossip. i go by proven facts. so, you can disregard your little comments up there!
if you go to one place, theres things against him, go to another and the things said are for him. no one seems to be on the fence except me and savean.
also, where is the proof on the alcohol? did forensics find any there or is it just more twists against someone the world is jealous of??
and if you watched the video they showed on the news, and saw the "manquins" they spoke of and pics of children...i think you will find they are not pornographic! they are pics just like i have, and im sure your parents have! i have kids on my wall who are not my own children......so sue me maybe? get slanderous about me too? sue your parents.
another thing, they are now moaning because he has a wine cellar.....for goodness sake!!!! he cant please anyone can he?? if he is childish and has toys...he gets critisized, if he is adult and has alcohol in his own home...bring on more critisizm.
the only chance this man stands is counting on the fact they wont find any evidence against him to prove his guilt. if it is down to opinion, he is doomed. why cant you people open your minds just a bit and listen to BOTH sides of the story and let the evidence speak for itself before you throw away the key.
>>By molkos_lover (Friday, 4 Mar 2005 22:28)
also, ive been through our court system. i took a man to court for a simliar offence, the man changed his story when they found out my clothes went ot the forensics, after he said he didnt lay a finger on me. he realised the evidence was going to be there, and they would see he lied, so he changed his story, i had a member of his own family give evidence against him, and he still walked free away because there was not enough hard evidence for the jury to find him guilty. the judge even said he was guilty. but at the end of the day its down to the jury. and for it to be a fair trial...WHATEVER the outcome, they need solid evidence. i would have had that evidence in my case if he hadnt changed his story.
the justice system can really suck. like i said, if they have evidence to prove he really did abuse that child, then ill be with everyone else and say yeah, guilty. but til then i wont believe it.
COCA...there is evidence the accuser this time got the information on the previous case bought against jackson through the internet...this wonderful thing you are all using to be haters...before he bought his own case against him. we all know you can get just about anything from the internet, no holds barred!
i just think you guys should think about things before you speak. im open minded as to the result. but i also have my own beliefs.
>>By molkos_lover (Friday, 4 Mar 2005 22:37)
Michael Jackson's music makes me happy. No matter how I'm feeling, I'll play an MJ record and it will all be good. It's hard to think that he would commit such a crime, but who knows. I think he might be innocent, I watched this documentary on T.V. Who knows what the verdict will be I just hope he's innocent.
>>By Jane (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 04:12)
re; molkos-lover..yes the net plays an influence...but from the interview that the detective gave of the 2 boys stories...they were too similar and not released to the public yet....so as to saying things before we speak..maybe you should speak to the detectives on the case...
>>By coca (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 04:34)
p.s......he dished out millions the first time..after he said he was innocent..if anyone out there was innocent for a crime would you dish out millions to shut someone up? i wouldn't, but hey, thats just me. i'd fight till the end to proclaim my innocence
>>By coca (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 04:47)
ok coca...ill just give them a ring! lol i know what your saying with the money...however, if you were taking someone to court for such an offence, and they wanted to settle out of court with a few million, would you still fight to the end to prove his guilt, or take the money...id fight to the end...but then, thats just me!! money is not justice. how would you feel if someone touched your child in such a way? id not stop the fight til they were rotting in jail, not offering me millions.
JANE....thank you for saying that. i hope so too ;o)
>>By molkos_lover (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 16:07)
that he paid off the first boy
is more a sign of MJ's guilt
the families accepting it
is a sign of a shakedown / extortion scheme
the american legal system has it's flaws
no doubt the prospect of putting their son through
a 'no-holds barred' , high profile kiddie-fondling trial
played a part in accepting the money
doing away with the public scrutiny
my personal bias is that MJ
lives in a child-like fantasy world surrounded by sychophants
that cater to his every whim
his retarded social development only allows him to feel completely
comfortable in the company of children (especially boys)
but physically he's somewhat of a man
must harbour sexual urges
so where do you think he seeks gratification for those urges ???
where he feels most at ease
as i've said prior
i don't really expect a conviction in this case
it may all come down to the testimony of a child against the word of MJ
needless to say
a verdict of "not guilty"
will not make him innocent in my eyes
>>By Helmet (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 17:49)
helmet...thanks for your feedback. i agree to all that you have written, now and in the past. this guy paid his way out of trouble then..and probably will again..i have a funny feeling that the paybacks are in the works now.....but thats just MY opinion....and in MY opinion this guy is so guilty.....so as above, a vertict of not guilty will not make him innocent in my eyes either......
>>By coca (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 19:48)
ok, but if the family felt how you described helmet.... "no doubt the prospect of putting their son through
a 'no-holds barred' , high profile kiddie-fondling trial
played a part in accepting the money
doing away with the public scrutiny" if that was the case, they wouldnt have let it go public. there is a way of staying private. just because the media ask questions, you do not have to answer. they wanted it public, so they got what they wanted. and no doubt they will get what they want in the end...money.
i totally agree with things you say to an extent. if he is guilty then i hope the courts do find evidence on him and lock him away. but if he pays his time he shouldnt have to pay millions too. and if he is innocent, he shouldnt have to pay millions there either. but we all know either way, that family will get the pay off they have been searching for.
i believe if one person does a series of acts which are harmful to others, they will eventually get what they deserve. what goes around comes around. but if it aint meant to be for whatever reason, then thats just the way it goes.
>>By molkos_lover (Saturday, 5 Mar 2005 20:20)
< molkos_lover >
i guess it's fair to say that we both have our predisposed outlook on this matter based on our personal evaluations of MJ
while you take the stand of "innocent until proven guilty"
your mind is at least open enough to accept his guilt
if there was / is enough compelling evidence
me on the other hand
i really can't think what it would take for me to believe in his innocence
"gee, was i all wet on that one"
let's keep our fingers crossed that the trial doesn't degenerate into a complete circus freakshow
if MJ is acquited
let's hope the whole experience convinces him that
if nothing else
inviting kids to sleep in his bed
such a wise idea
>>By Helmet (Sunday, 6 Mar 2005 03:13)
what will happen to his kids????? do they live with him now????
>>By coca (Sunday, 6 Mar 2005 16:25)
i totally agree with you helmet. as for his kids...i notice they havent really been spoken of or appeared anywhere during the whole case so far. god knows where they are and what will happen to them in any eventuality. i hope they arent effected too much in the long run.
>>By molkos_lover (Sunday, 6 Mar 2005 19:31)
mr. Black White
>>By _sleepwalker (Sunday, 6 Mar 2005 23:07)
black or white is a great song though :oP
>>By molkos_lover (Monday, 7 Mar 2005 10:31)
I read through all thats been said, some interesting stuff, some shit...
I hope he's innocent.
Scrub that, I hope he didn't do it.
I make the distinction because I really couldn't care less about Jackson, I just don't want these things to have happened to children.
As I've said before he's paid his way out before, and before the fans start up again, THEN would have been the time for the innocent untill proven guilty bit. If he was innocent then (or ever) he could have sat it out and been vindicated.
The only reason I can see for him not buying his way out of this one is that he's now too poor to do so.
>>By monkeyfeet (Sunday, 13 Mar 2005 17:32)
yeah his finances are screwed now, have to agree there. but what kind of system do we have if it allows people to drop charges for a financial settlement. at the end of the day, as you said, hopefully it didnt happen to these kids, but i dont believe in our justice system anyway. theres no way of knowing the truth without seeing it happen these days. our justice system sucks, somethings get seriously screwed up and now theres nothing we can do about it. take for example, and i know this is different but im thinking about the justice system now...3 friends hacked another child to death and got what they call "life", but, we all know that doesnt mean they will serve life in prison. they will be out in about 15 years probably! yet, other kids who killed another child by pushing him off the bridge only got a matter of months...yet they still killed. where is the justice?
people lie under oath, and thats where it all goes wrong. the innocent can be punished, and the guilty can get away. happens all too often. i know thats not always the case, but it happens too much.
another guy, in court for rape, stole a gun and opened fire in court....and still got away!
like i said, i know its different, but it just goes to show our world really is getting too screwed up for anything to matter when under oath. the word of a person isnt always something to trust in court or not.
im starting to care less and less about michaels court case now, justice probably wont be done in either case. i just hope the children come out of it ok...whatever happened.
>>By molkos_lover (Monday, 14 Mar 2005 13:14)
if he's broke, maybe he should sell a monkey or 2....
>>By coca (Monday, 14 Mar 2005 15:36)
lol he has so much he can start selling to make some money back. he doesnt have to go under. but im sure he doesnt need to sell everything he owns either.
>>By molkos_lover (Monday, 14 Mar 2005 22:55)
Block out all of the "strange and outlandish" things that he's done and just look at the performer. He can sing, he can dance, and he is surely an all-around entertaining guy. Micheal Jackson is a true legend.
>>By Wednesday (Monday, 14 Mar 2005 23:06)
I agree with molko, its only because he is so famous it is getting taken this far . With ordinairy people it gets dropped, and not much is done with the offenders. They just want to make an example of him and it seems the parents encouraged the kids to sleep in his bed, what the hell kind of people are they. Lets hope the truth comes out whatever that is.
>>By scarletnikki (Tuesday, 15 Mar 2005 18:15)
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