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| Discussion: Emo "the guerrillas gain the support of the population through attacks on the machinery of government and the distribution of propaganda" - that's from Wikipedia, Flagg... the article you mention... personally I think laughing at emos comes under "distribution of propaganda" - anyway, if you're gonna be immature and seek out a literal definition of what was obviously a metaphor, you're a fine one to call us who laugh at emo "childish" - also you can't measure uniqueness I don't really have an issue with labelling... but isn't it easier to refer to "those annoying idiots who wear belts but leave their arses hanging out, listen to stupid scene music, comb their hair over their one eye and act like little children when they're out in public" as just "emos"? >>By Sk8a H8a Well obviously you want at very least to reserve the right to choose your own label then Scarlett , one that suits how you wish to present yourself to the world at large, how you see yourself. To me you're entirely an individual and I wouldn't choose to give you any label you didn't choose for yourself (in fact I probably wouldn't choose to use ANY label) . Some people are happy or even proud to be labelled "chav", witness that lottery-winner who described himself as "king of the chavs" so it's not intrinsically offensive. Or look at it another way "Chav" is a media creation fed and fuelled by the gutter press to "demonise" the "jobless white working-class council-house-dweller" (for the sake of arguement). It gives legitimacy to uncomfortable notion that these people are less valuable (when I think it's probably fairer to say they're just relatively poor and ill-educated and aren't very likely to better themselves within society). This is how successive governments will get away with gradually allowing standards of state education, state health provision, access to utilities (don't get me started on the water scandal please!) etc to fall without an outcry from those who have an education and employment and can afford either private provision or to live in nicer areas on the grounds that "it doesn't matter they're only "chavs"" . This is dangerous and we're already seeing the signs of the trouble this kind of stratification/division of society can lead to. We're already seeing the unpleasant rise of the far right in some urban areas who are essentially "cashing in" on the dissatisfaction of the kind of people who get labeled "chavs". Another area that concerns me is that once you have demonised the poor and allowed them to develop as a kind of "untouchable semi-criminal underclass" there is little to be gained for those in that situation not becoming more criminal or anti-social. Pretty crime and anti-social behaviour is on the increase and the prison population is set to rise, ASBOs get handed out like confetti. Once you've labeled someone like that their life opportunities are clearly vastly reduced... also we're seeing a reduction in our civil liberties and participation in our democracy this is also worrying. What I suspect we're heading towards in this country is more "gated communities" more private education and the development of a permanent underclass since we no longer require skilled workforce in our steadliy depleted manufacturing sector. Service sector industries clearly favour the polite, middle class educated applicant and now make up approx 70% of our GDP, simultaneously we're keeping the economic pressure up on the lower echelons of society but allowing eastern europeans economic migrants into this country who will work happily for far less. It seems to me all the social advances of the previous century or so are gradually being eroded to the advantage of the elite (not very nice), and it also raises the spectre of opportunistic exploitation of this situation but the far right (also not very nice) What I'm trying to get across is that everyone is individual and that labeling anyone an "emo" or a "chav" or some other pejorative disrespectful label just stops you seeing what that person is really like. It desensitises you to their actual humanity, it plays into the hands of those who are rich powerful and influential grabbing ever more for themselves to the detriment of the majority. Please don't do it. Ok I'll get off my soapbox now! ;) >>By planet ear LOL Maybe you're already too desensitised for help Sk8er! ;) >>By planet ear planet ear,the point that you have missed here is that they want to be labelled chav and emo,they actively seek to belong to that group, it isnt because of social disfunction. of course culture is made up of many sub cultures and I personally know people who are proud to be a chav and proud to be an emo ,and we all get on but laugh at each other too,life doesnt all have to be so serious. I don,t need to choose my own label,because as wednesday said ,I am just me ,deal with it. and now on a completely superficial level: I find groups of chavs intimidating, and groups of emos here in the uk laughable,but harmless,and yes I can laugh at myself. >>By scarletnikki Sk8a H8a and co... to expand on what Planet Ear said about the lower class being dehumanised, do you think the politicians and members of the media who are responsible for that are within their rights? For that matter, do you think it's ok that Tony Blair went to war without good reason and against public opinion, or that 95% of the country's wealth is owned by 5% of the population? Don't you think that our shitty, shallow government and merciless financial elite would be better targets for your 'metaphorical guerilla warfare' than emo kids? Perhaps I'm wrong. In fact I'm not at all sure that every single thing I've said on this board hasn't been misguided bullshit. But the reason I'm still arguing with you is that I want you to admit that all you were doing was laughing at emo kids, just enjoying yourself by taking the piss out of an easy target for piss-taking, until someone questioned why you were doing that, and *then* you felt compelled to defend yourself and began entertaining notions of an invisible war against unthinking conformity. I'm not expecting you to admit to that, but nothing you can say is likely to stop me believing it either. >>By Flagg scarlet, the point you say I "missed" is one I made earlier explicitly, and at some length, in exploring your comments regarding your feeling that if I were to hypothetically label you a "chav" you'd find it offensive. I've also said absolutely unambiguously that yes, of course you are an individual (as everyone else is) which is why I don't like labels and labelling!...... duh Has it crossed your mind that the reason you find a group of "chavs" threatening is actually because you've been brain-washed by the media? "Emos" may chose their music or clothes in emulation of a fashion sure, but to suggest they at the same time chose to be labelled and mocked as a "class" doesn't necessarily follow at all. It's as lazy a thought process as saying all make-up artists are incapable of following a logical arguement ;) But I doubt anyone consciously chose to be a "chav" as it was clearly a media labeling of a supposed pre-existing grouping which then appropriated various popstars etc as supposed "chav" icons , some "Chavs" may without further thought accept or even revel in this label, but like "yuppies" or Essex Man/Girl stereotypes in earlier eras it's a media-led grouping through which we're being manipulated and should you ever experience what is like to be labeled consistently with a stereotype you dislike you'd probably learn to laugh it off in public, or even make the first self-deprecating joke against your supposed grouping. I grew up in Essex. I can assure you the media stereotype bore precious little resemblance to the real population and for a number of years it was hideously embarassing to live in London in a professional environment when someone in the pub or such-like would ask where I was from. I just knew I would have to spend the next half an hour being roundly mocked with a string of poor jokes and sniggering remarks..... >>By planet ear well,I did make an earlier comment saying that there had always been various labelled subcultures ,and groups that attract media attention. And indeed before the "Essex man/girl, yuppie" labels, there were "mods and rockers". Everone here is entitled to their own opinion,without it having to resort to personal remarks, everyone has a valid point,for instance, I live in the north east and when out in the community the poulation has a dominant grouping of "chavs", most of which are ok and just get on with their own thing,however there is also the "thug chav" terrorising and attacking people, on local transport purely for fun. so perhaps it varies in each county. my boyfriend was recently attacked from behind by chavs, knocked unconcious and beatan the shit out of, perhaps I have good reason to be wary. Back to "emos" from what I can see (and this again is only my observation) they are young people following a group to feel safe and accepted and because they share musical tastes,however the emos here in the north east do act really stupid when together. so I don't think I am brainwashed by the media (ive never seen anything about emo's on the media) these are my personal findings.I don't think I have ever brought the class issue into this discussion.As for saying "its as lazy a thought process as saying all make up artists are incapable of following a logical arguement" I have to say planet ear, who the hell do you think you are,I have qualifications that line the walls. It seems to me you actually have no experience of chavs or emos because you choose not to step out of your comfort zone and probably only mix with people your own age and class ....duh >>By scarletnikki i personally see it this way, empathy and tolerance etc etc would be nice yes indeed it would i agree but the fact of the matter is and dispute it all you want things dont, never have and probably never will work like that, there is still someone who will refuse to conform to tolerating others and you know in some respects people have very good reasons not to tolerate others for examples say paedophiles could you honestly say you could tolerate them if your child had come into contact with them? i doubt it very much so there are people who have very ligitimate reasons not to tolerate... and while there is a minute few who dont tolerate everybody else will question why they should have to if they dont like something.. I have personally had extremely bad experience with chavs as have alot of people around here and i imagine in other places too so therefore i cannot tolerate them...... "yeah i know you tried to strangle me to death in school and i know you held me at knife point and cut off my hair but thats ok you are who you are". You would struggle very much to find tolerance and empathy for people like that. So do you imagine that the people that emos have caused trouble for..... im not on about us they just annoy me when i see it but the people who have been on the receiving end of it such as shop owners who lost business or the people who where being constantly disturbed by there antics...... say a bunch of emos were being disruptive outside an elderly ladies house and she couldnt get any sleep or feel she could even leave her house because of them would she have to tolerate it for the sake of it? its all very well saying that people should tolerate and empathise with eachother but unless you have both sides doing it it wont work, the problems people have with emos are all over these pages and while some of them such as dressing int he dark ye probably could be tolerated but should the childish antics that get other people into trouble? shouldnt the other side have to empathise with us and see that there need to think before doing something.... think if their going to hurt someone? Or maybe ruin someones business and livelyhood by knicking thier stock? I think what sk8a h8a is getting at is why should we tolerate those who clearly have little respect for anybody else? that and other reasons too.. and hes got a point from personal experience with them they dont have much respect for others and i dont mean all of them because there are always exceptions but the majority couldnt care who took the rap for thier antics so long as it wasnt them. Should that be tolerated? You might say yes now but then say they knicked something from a shop near you and you was near by and ended up getting the blame for it? Would you want to tolerate it then could you empathise with them then? Or say they pulled some stupid stunt and you or someone you care about got seriously hurt? Would you still say "ah its alright carry on". I certainly wouldnt i want them to stop and think about what they were doing. as for labelling now i dislike it as odd as that may sound i think everybody does... but we go back to tolerance.... since everybody gets labelled like it or not anyway and always will till the end of time people have just learnt to deal with it... some people rebel against it and create a whole new thing with no label, some people change what a label stands for, i personally piss off the world of labelling by saying "right so you want to put a label on my head fine i pick it" so i have things i dont mind being labelled as and things i do mind being labelled as.... someone calls me an "emo kid" like they have before i dont appreciate it because i dont dress according to emo code and i dont listen to emo music.... someone says im a goth however i dont much mind because i am assuming thats what i must appear like, i like the gothic scene the dress the whole thing so i dont mind. Its untrue because there are clearly some aspects of me that arent considered gothic apparently were all supposed to hate life and want to try suicide for fun but i dont do that and i know a bunch of other goths who dont but on the whole i guess i am kind of gothic.... wheres the harm its only a name..... the people that matter and i know that im just me every day and nothing else... the people who dont matter are irrelevant to me so long as they stay out of my face. and im agreeing with scarlets last post too.... there is no need to get personal on this if you cant keep a discussion where there is clearly conflict of ideas civilised then perhaps you should take some time away. And more to the point shes actually right... where she lives there are more decent chavs than there are aggresive and nasty ones.... in the north west there are much more aggresive and anit social ones than nice ones...infact youd struggle to find a nice one here and we too have emos that do really stupid and potentially harmful things for amusement...... for instance they contantly try to drown eachother in the manchester city centre and push eachother into the road when a bus is coming....why i dont know but its damn right stupid.... and one emo the other day was massively offensive to an asian lady he was following her through town saying "my mum says its time you gave her that tea towel back and she hopes you washed it!" now wheres the need i ask you! if i was that woman id have thrown him under a bus myself instead of his mates doing it....... the emos around here are only a couple of steps away from being chav like.... but they arent like that everywhere from what i understand. chavs are threatening because we experienced it first hand thank you very much and the same applies for emos... hence why there are people here with conflicting arguments from everywhere... because our experiences are different... unliuckily she had the same chav experience as me and if you want to tell me that im media brainwashed then maybe you should trade places with me for a week and i 100%garantee you before youve even set foot outside the house youll change your tune... might not be like that were you are but it certainly is here.... same applies with emo dont believe it well come and see because you might like to believe that things are the same as how you see them but youl be sadly disappointed to discover that its different here. >>By spookygoth sorry its long and the spelling is abit crap by the way im trying to do loads at once.. >>By spookygoth interesting you should mention the racial aspect spookygoth, my boyfriend was attacked defending a black woman. >>By scarletnikki Everyone is taking this so seriously. >>By Wednesday Scarlet and Spooky I think the basic problem here is that you are both having your thought processes constrained by your uncritical use of language. You both allow for their being "good chavs" and "bad chavs" which is a step in towards seeing how your language is controlling your thought processes. So let's try to take that a stage further. Imagine that the words "chav" and "emo" etc etc don't exist. What we have then is that some people act in ways in which you approve or deem acceptable and some others on occasion act in ways in ways which are are less so or even thoroughly unacceptable. I've never suggested at any point that unacceptable behaviour is acceptable or indeed that society shouldn't act to curb the worst forms of behaviour (I believe it should). Some of the people that do unpleasant things or act in antisocial ways may wear some clothes or listen to music which is of a current fashion. So will a number of others who don't behave in an unacceptable way. If we don't choose to be prejudiced against everyone who wears these clothes and/or listens to this music we can concerntrate societies energies in dealing with effectively with those that need attention irrespective of their fashion/music sense. Quite simple and logical really isn't it? Now on to the brain-washing strand. Rather than getting on with this process the government in conjunction with media (and both are very very much under the thumb of big business, the rich and powerful) is choosing to make it acceptable by pejorative labeling of certain supposed sets of individuals to create a sub-class which it can demonise as responsible for the ills of society. This language is so all pervasive that it takes a clear head to be able to think in different terms. If fact it seems almost naive and otherwordly to do so which is due to the clever marketing of these concepts as the sophisicated desirable way to think (marketing is clever and very effective and none of us is immune - hey I smoke!) Here's a little case study in how prejudice can be created/contained and manipulated We did seem to at one point in the UK acheive a consensus amongst most (although certainly not all) that racial prejudice was not acceptable and so gradually labels like "paki" "nigger" etc became less widely used. At much the same time the right-wing press ,particularly as I recall the Daily Mail, fought a kind of rearguard action for racism. Why? Well here's my thoughts....... I suspect this was because there was pressure to change the laws concerning stop and search on reasonable suspicion ("sus" laws) which would have removed powers the police wanted to use to curtail secondary picketing . The conservative government of the time, having just enacted legislation to outlaw secondary picketing so it could nail a hammer in the coffin of the trade union movement (which, let's face it, it did very effectively) wanted to keep them against a body of opinion that they were being abused. Now they weren't going to make "sus" laws socially acceptable to the voters of this country on the grounds that "we can harrass the hell out of your trade unions that way" so they needed an enemy within... Their thought process ran like this "let's pick on the black population we can get away with that as they probably vote labour anyway!" Suddenly the Metropolitan Police started issuing racial breakdowns of crime figures and the Daily Mail slapped them all over the front page with the thesis that we need to "sus" laws to curtail the wave of black crime.... So you'd see drivel statistics like 90% of all muggings (which resulted in prosecution - always read the fine print ;) ) were carried out by blacks. Well .....if you spend all day stop and searching only black people you will probably catch more blacks sure....and it is obviously easier to catch a street mugger who looks very different to the majority of people on the street .... so it's relatively easy to generate that kind of statistic. What I said at the time is can we have those figures broken down by income please? And if that had been done I'm pretty certain that we would have been able to generate some stats demonstrating 90%+ of all muggings were carried out by people who earnt less than half the average white male income.! But then the government might have been put under greater pressure to address inequality so ypu know that never happened..... The result was that the police were just about able to keep the appallingly racistly applied "sus" powers against public outcry for just a bit longer to help fight the miners strike. Our delightful governemt/corporate/media/establishment of today seems to favour "chavs" as the enemy within, and the Muslim Terrorist World is the equivalent of the Warsaw Pact threat as the currently favoured "Enemy Without" to make sure the country can justify keep the arms industry well-oiled ;) Scarlet, if you'd bothered to read my post properly you'll see I did say very clearly that saying all make-up artists were incapable of following a logical arguement would be an example of lazy-thinking! Not sure how you managed to be offended by that unless you erroneously assume I'm an advocate of lazy-thinking?!?!?!? Although I'm delighted to learn you have so many qualifications that you can save on the expense of wallpaper! Let me send you Gold Star for being such a Clever Girl! ;) Not sure why you need to imagine that I only hang around with one class of people (I don't BTW)? Maybe you have label for that too so you can manage to ignore any points I make on the grounds that I'm one of those people "that only hangs around with their own kind"? ;) I think pretty obviously brainwashing isn't terribly effective if the subject is aware that they've been processed and it's also well-established that deconditioning is a long and often frustrating process .....which I seem to have temporarally forgotten when I started posting here! Here's today's Deconditioning Mantra we'll start with one that only asks a question so the answer has a chance to appear when you dwell on the mantra : "Maybe there are no chavs really, Maybe there are no chavs really........" OK, look , you did say you could laugh at yourself earlier too so please have sense of humour ;) >>By planet ear wednesday: i know WAY too seriously and personally. planet ear i will reply to your post when i have the time to decipher the waffle. cheers. >>By scarletnikki Please do take your time Scarlet. >>By planet ear right now have you quite finished talking down to me? really? i doubt it but i will assume so.... let me just point out for the record before i bother interpreting that nonsense you just put up you arent above anybody else so drop the attitude and deal with it. i have yet to here your actual point of view.... you can hide behind your theories and conspiracies and you can tell me all the stuff you want about how the media and the government are to blame.... but not a word have you spoken about what you have actually experiences everybody else has and some of us have had bad experiences with both chavs and emos and some have had different ones.... you seem resilliant to say which suggests to me you have nothing to say thats from your own knowledge... now chavs while it may mean they are the dole dossing unemployed useless waste of spaces of society which would be how the media and governement portray it..... but no where in their description does it say that they have to dress a certain way or act a certain way.... what so everybody who is unemployed and on the dole and etc is a chav......erm no pal i think not however have you ever heard that saying..... if it sounds like a duck and looks like a duck? well if it dresses like a chav acts like a chav sounds like a chav then the chances are it is a chav....... same wiv emo.... shit even emos dont despute that if something looks emo and listens to what is considered emo music then they are virtually emo.... i have had bad personal experience with both so if i think the way i do its not because i am brainwashed by the media or whoever its because i have seen it first hand and seen it as the majority do it...i have never once said all emos do this or all chavs do that because i have always stated there are exceptions... so you can drop the brain washing stance because anything i say is because i have first hand experience to back it up..... you failing to understand that it is different in other places up in the north of england that is the way it is thats two of us from the north that have told you that from our own experience not from anything we have read or seen but from our own experience and if you dont see it thats because you are from down south and it may well be different there.... but we wouldnt know because your to busy telling us about how people are brainwashed into thinking these things and then telling us about statistics and government and media conspiracy but nothing from your own experience of them..... im not bothered about why you think the media do what and i dont care about why the governement wants people to conform i do care about why you think we are wrong from your own experience in the world.... like i said thoeries and what the media do are irrelevant at this point. you can hardily say that the people presenting a personal argument are brainwashed while you havent presented a single thing from real life of your own. >>By spookygoth I'm opting out. Nice arguing with you guys, but I don't have the patience. >>By Flagg ok flagg i dont blame you! >>By scarletnikki ok ive read it several times now and it seems that this discussion is going around in circles and not actually talking about emo. I cant be bothered to reply to the personal comments because i don't care what someone like planet ear thinks of me,and since he came on board it has just become aggressive and destructive. anyone wants to actually talk about emo ,then let me know. >>By scarletnikki That's what I meant when I said "everyone is taking this way too seriously" because people are talking themselves into circles and it doesn't even matter anymore because it's no longer coherent. >>By Wednesday ok planet i don't think you have the foggiest what the hell you are talking about and are just trying to make an argument up of long words which you probably don't even know what they mean once strung together in a sentence.further more i know scarlet nikki personally and let me tell you she is far from thick and the community of people she has worked with and along side lists a catogory of stars (thats famous people to you) more than you will ever know.she is an intelligent all round knowledgable person that to be quite honest in your former essex world would border on an iq into the thousands!!!and let me tell you i live about 5 or six miles away from her and "chavs" are exactly what they are labelled as..total arseholes!!!for instance the latest thing is called a gang iniation test.the latest one was a guy trying to get into the local chav community and basically they pick a task for him to do and if he does he is in the gans (so to speak).they told him he had to stop a man and woman comming out of the pub and demand that they give him their shoes or he was going to beat them up.so this couple were in their 40's and came out after a quiet night out and this "chav wanna be" went up to them and demanded their shoes.the womans husband said no and told her not to give them her shoes either.at which point the "chav wanna be" jumped on the woman and started punching her as she lay on the ground,her husband they jumped in and as the "chav wanna be" was only about 16 the older guy started to get the better of him so all the chave jumped in and i mean about 50 people by the way.they took the shoes off the 2 of them and proceded to beat them with them,then robbed them too and run off.the man and woman both had to go to hospital for stiches cuts and bruises.and this is now happening every weekend up here. and as for "emos" they are in a world of their own and act totally stupid.they have an individual look which keeps them labelled in this group and act totally wierd which draws attention to themselves all the time.they are attention seekers!!! so leave off chavs that you know nothing about and emos for that matter and most of all leave of scarlet nikki cos shes my best mate and she is the best woman in the world!!! >>By villevalo Oh dear, so sorry, I appear to have overestimated the linguistic and intellectual prowess of some of this boards' participants. Sadly I suspect Scarlet is actually intelligent enough to know I was talking a lot of thought-provoking sense but lacks the integrity to actually say so. >>By planet ear Ah! Why are people talking about "thought-provoking" issues ... we're supposed to be talking about emo. No one is coherent any longer, or on topic, including myself. >>By Wednesday Good God... having just read all that since my last post, I'm horrified at what's happened to this discussion board, as I can see almost everyone else is... I'm not gonna add another ridiculously long post since there are already far too many - let's keep this short and get back to talking about emo! Flagg: Respect for your argument - I don't blame you for pulling out either... spookygoth, scarletnikki and villevalo: I'm glad someone can back me up with actual experience on this... Wednesday: Right on planet ear: did you say "intolerance"? Well maybe you could drop the disgusting sarcasm, abandon the irrelevant posts about government conspiracies, act your age and if you really must post on this board, bear in mind that it's about emo... once again, as spookygoth said, stop talking down to everyone else! I'm not saying that the whole deal with government oppression of chavs and so on isn't important because that would be extremely ignorant of me - don't make the mistake of assuming that we're politically unaware! But this is not the place to discuss it! This is a music discussion board about emos! Got it? A Plea to Everyone: Please let's try to put this ridiculous argument behind us all and pretend we never had it? It's gotten out of hand... I just wanna talk about emo with like-minded people and others who may disagree... not have some cynical ignoramus preach his meaningless conspiracy theories unto us all! Is there anyone interested in discussing emo music? Anyone? >>By Sk8a H8a I don't feel it would be possible for me at present to add anything more to that I have already said without being unduly patronising to those whose education has clearly failed them. >>By planet ear well how about your own argument...... your personal experience... i am assuming you know what that means yes because thats what we were all talking about before you and you are the only one that hasnt said a word about what you have experienced yourself... now you either have them and are trying to be clever and therefore avoiding it for a more complex but irrelivant argument or you dont step foot outside your door because you spend all your time looking into other people ideas.... really think for yourself... they are right this was fine before you came along... we all had conflicting ideas because we have established that its different depending on where in the world we are... something else you are failing to understand... me and flagg and others have all had our disagreements but non of us disrespected the other and we learnt that its because of the difference pf emo int he world.... we didnt all tell wednesday she was an idiot because she didnt see emo like me and a few others did she explained that emo wasnt like it is here where she was.... flagg didnt agree with some of the stuff we were saying but we respected him still and he respected our points too... you come along and you seem to think that because we arent interested in your theories about the media that we are stupid now imsorry but theres no respect and if you want respect you earn it you dont demand it.... and you certainly dont tell people there "education has clearly failed them" because there is no need. the fact of the matter is you havent said a word about your own personal experience which is what we were discussing but seem to contantly throw this shit about media in our face... now ill put one thing forward on the matter and then its droped and you can go on about til your blue in the face but its not relevant unless your using it to back up something you have seen or experienced..... anybody that actually believes every word from media is an idiot anyway... they are the ones that do the conforming not the ones who dislike those that do and those doing the conforming here are emo they fall into media brainwashing the rest of us dont why because we have different ideas about them... if we were being brainwashed wed all think the damn same! but we dont and brainwashing for that purpose is not possible because emo is different everywhere so we cnt be brainwashed into thinking the same thing about them if its different from place to place.. now onto the topic! you going to put your personal experience forward or not because the way i see you have too options.... you talk with respect about your personal experience and stuff thats relevant and stop talking down to others or two you leave because its not tolerated here... you was the one that went on about tolerance but you seem to be the least tolerant when someone disagrees with you. we are going to get this conversation back on its feet and discuss this prooperly with or without your cooperation so the choice is yours whether you want a part of that or not.. but thats the way its going down because we was having a good conversation before you dropped by despite any disagreements we cooperated for the sake of discussion which is now lacking since your appearance and i think the majoirty would agree with me there... look above if you disagree with that but it would seem the main people on this forum from before your time would say similar at least even people who wernt originally part of it have suggested the same... choice is yours but less of name calling and telling people they are stupid because if you want to point that finger you are the only one who hasnt actually kept in with the discussion you havent the right to suggest anybody else is less intellegent than yourself when you clearly dont read what is being said before you strat typing and dont type things that are relevant. >>By spookygoth there was a shorter version of that but the comp crashed and i had to do it all over again. >>By spookygoth well i think that was put perfectly spooky goth,I choose to make my opinions up by experience,and not what I am told by the media. that does not mean I am media naieve either. my education along with most of the others has been fine, thankyou and indeed not a waste,I suspect that was just a ruse on planet ears part to annoy me again. we are all aware of the bigger picture and politics as thay infiltrate every day life.however, we experence what we talk about and dont just sit on the side lines pontificating.planet ear I believe your outlook is based on possibly never having mixed with the people you are (not) talking about.As pointed out by spookygoth we all disagree with each other on here at times,thats what makes good disscussion ,but we respect each others opinions as dont resort to inane name calling to put our points across, that goes back to school playground bullying. ( oh by the way I thought you might like to know I had private education....bet your gonna blow your top at me for that aren't you) and finally ,anyone who knows ne would say I have plenty of integrity thankyou. so are you going to try and pull someone else down now? as so far you havnt got very far with me...you must have though I was an easy target.......oh so wrong. >>By scarletnikki and then...back to emo . can someone please list some bands that are emo as I really want to check them out because I may like the music ,thanks. >>By scarletnikki Ah! I am Sk8aH8a!! Haha, that's what I've been trying to say. >>By Wednesday wel emo round here is like panic at the disco erm fall out boy and taking back sunday, all american rejects...... but i have heard people refer to bullet for my valentine, trivium, and stuff like that as emo and i think they sound different and non emoish to metoo heavy to be emo for a start and dont appear emo...... lost prophets have gone abit emo now though i used to like some of their stuff and then new song came out its no where near as good and they have a definate emo image. >>By spookygoth |